Cardboard vs Etopps

[pwaldo]

Originally posted by IggyWH
Okay, I've been quiet here but time for me to try and work my magic to get you to understand.

To understand the Tony Banks phenom, you must first understand supply and demand. At the convention, they said there are over 75,000 etopps accounts. If we say that 1% of those account holders want a Tony Banks (either they're a fan, a set builder and need him for their set, or just want one for the novelty), that leaves 7,500 people wanting a share of a card that has a PR of 186. Supply and demand then drives up the price to where only those who can afford it own the 186 in population while the rest of the accounts are left out. Not to mention a guy by the name of PapaTony used to own over 30% of all the Tony Banks cards and I believe he still owns over 20%.

Okay, now for a comparison that will help you understand. Back in 1993 when Topps Finest first started and they had their refractor inserts, none of them were numbered. It is however thought that some of the refractors were short printed such as the Nolan Ryan (which I have heard numbers around 525). Now I understand that Tony Banks is no Nolan Ryan, but that Ryan sells for well over $1000. If Nolan Ryan had a card today that was numbered out of #500, do you think it would go for $1,000? NO, because there has been overproduction since '93. But in '93, that was the first really known if its kind to have a card that rare and that's why it still sells for that much now-a-days. Another comparision would be in basketball. In 1999 UD Century there was a Jordan #'d to 23 autographed that books at $7000. In 02-03 UD I think it was there's a Jordan game used & auto card #'d to 23 and you are EXTREMELY lucky to get $1000 for such a card. Why? Because the #'d cards have been way overproduced and while in '99 a #'d Jordan to 23 auto'd was rare, today it's not that special of a thing. So with the Tony Banks and eTopps, it is the 93 Finest Nolan Ryan, it is the '99 Jordan auto'd to #23. Now if there were 20 other cards #'d to 186 in eTopps, the Banks wouldn't be as high as it is now. It is the most rare card made and probably ever made in eTopps so it is the Honus Wagner rookie card of the eTopps world. That is why you can't compare the Tony Banks to your cardboard that you pull now that's #'d lower and sells for a buck or two.

Thank you for explaining all of that and I'm NOT against ETopps. Its just something that I don't understand to the same level as to what I do with "cardboard" so it doesn't make sense for me to try it when I don't know anything and lose money.

Its like I don't know that much about the stock market but if you had somebody who did they'd be saying to buy this and buy that.

Now back to what you were saying with the Nolan Ryan Refractor and everything else.

So doesn't that mean that once they release a card that is rarer than the Banks that it will drop like the cards you mentioned before.

I understand that card and others with low print runs are worth more money.

But all the players who seem to be worth the most are players that nobody really likes.

Its not like "cardboard" cards where Rice, MJ, Kobe, Shaq, Marino, Bonds, Arod, and Jeter are all worth more because they are popular.

You need a market of people willing to buy a card for a lot of money to keep it at high prices.

Now if you just have people going after cards because they have lower print runs won't that mean it will just turn into a thing where everyone will go after the lowest print runs and then nobody else.

Then Topps will make less of the "common" ones and more of the "rare" ones which would in turn make the older "rare" cards less. Its just like what you stated above. Insert cards were very popular back in the early 90s and everyone wanted them. You could sell them for 100% book value. Now nobody wants them. The same thing can be said of game used cards.

Its just that I don't collect cards of people who I don't like unless they are rookies which I get DIRT CHEAP. Basically for nothing.

Every other card that I buy I WANT. That way if the cards go down in value or become worthless I don't care because I still like them.

And I only buy and sell the rookies so that I can add to my collection of players without it costing me that much money.

[radioheadfloyd]

The value of the Banks card would drop some if there was a card issued with a lower print run... but that will most likely not happen. I think the Banks card is pretty much a joke... but there are people who want to complete the 01 Football set or own each Etopps card issued...so there are people willing to pay a premium.

Imagine what the card with 186 would be worth if it was Favre or someone else with talent and popularity... probably be 3k!

[IggyWH]

Originally posted by pwaldo
Its just that I don't collect cards of people who I don't like unless they are rookies which I get DIRT CHEAP. Basically for nothing.

Every other card that I buy I WANT. That way if the cards go down in value or become worthless I don't care because I still like them.

And I only buy and sell the rookies so that I can add to my collection of players without it costing me that much money.

Exactly the same with me and eTopps. I don't buy cards I don't want unless I can get a deal on them. I then trade or sell those cards I don't like and put that value towards a card I do like. I'm sure some people are into eTopps for the money, but I just want to use the money I make into more eTopps cards I want causing less money coming from out of my pocket.

[podstock]

well, you all are lucky I am not into Michael Vick or Etopps, otherwise, I'd have gotten it by now, lolol