Official Los Angeles Lakers Thread

[minew_m]

I have to defend Shaq a little here. You say he is useless at the end of the game. Well Kobe is useless during the whole game, except the fourth quarter. Yesterday he went 12 for 28 from the floor. Shaq went 75% from the floor (9-12). Kobe may have gotten more points but also missed a hell of a lot of shots too. Kobe may make it in the fourth "when it counts" but if hed make a little more in the first three quarters, he wouldn't need to make them then!

[skyracer3]

12-28 is shooting about 42%. Thats not a great percentage, but it isnt terrible. No body who takes the type of shots kobe does can consistenly stay at 50%. Shaq only took like 12 shots because he only can score when he gets great positioning under the basket, and thats only when his defender doesnt get back to guard him in time. Also during the end of the game, shaq is often in foul trouble, and can easily get called for a charge (Im not a big fan of the Lakers, but I even I admit that the refs dont do the best job officiating Laker games). So either he gets a charging call, or the defender intentionally puts him on the free throw line where he will probably only make 1 out of 2 shots.

[podstock]

Originally posted by minew_m
I have to defend Shaq a little here. You say he is useless at the end of the game. Well Kobe is useless during the whole game, except the fourth quarter. Yesterday he went 12 for 28 from the floor. Shaq went 75% from the floor (9-12). Kobe may have gotten more points but also missed a hell of a lot of shots too. Kobe may make it in the fourth "when it counts" but if hed make a little more in the first three quarters, he wouldn't need to make them then!

whoa, there!

Kobe is useless during the whole game,except 4th quarter?

1. Can Kobe shoot from the perimeter? yes

2. Can Kobe shoot from beyond the 3-point line? yes

3. Can Kobe dribble drive, penetrate, stop and pop a 15-footer, or lay up the ball? yes

4. Does Kobe play defense? yes

5. Does Kobe get the key offensive rebounds? Ask the Kings in the 2000 playoffs, the Spurs in the 2000 playoffs, the Spurs in the 2001 playoffs, etc.

6. Has Kobe improved his play year after year? yes, he shoots 3-pointers better in the last 3 years. He's added a bank shot to his game just this past 5 games, after practicing with Duncan at the all-star game. He's improved to 85% in free throws, up from 79%.
His FG % is pretty steady at 45%

7. Does Kobe enter each new NBA season in shape? yes, he spends his summers working out, and practicing jump shots, new shots -- and if you follow Lakers basketball, you see Kobe improve yearly.

Now for Shaq:

1. Is he the biggest, most unstoppable player? yes, after all, only Yao has the size, but not the strength, to play Shaq

2. Does Shaq play defense? Not in the 1st half of the season, not in the first 3 quarters of 75% of the games.

3. Does Shaq enter each new NBA season in shape? NO, he's even admitted that he uses the 1st half of the season to get himself in shape. According to Shaq, his summers are for him to spend doing what he wants - rap music, movies, hanging out.

4. Can Shaq shoot free throws? NO, he says he makes them when it counts. WHAT THE ™™™™ DOES THAT MEAN? 1 point in the 1st quarter counts exactly the same as 1 point in the 4th quarter. Shaq is a career 50-55% shooter. If he made his free throws in the 1st-3rd quarters, he wouldn't have to make them all in the 4th quarter. 3 years ago, he was about 52%. Last year, he was at 62%. This year, he's down to 51%.

5. Can Shaq shoot mid-range jumpers? no

6. How does Shaq score? he shoots within 3-8 foot shots, usually after overpowering smaller players. Put me up against smaller people, and I could score too.

7. Given that Shaq is the most unstoppable force, how many NBA Defensive Players of the Year award has he won?
NONE
Isn't defense based not only on size, but also on effort? After all, rebounds and block shots don't come to you. YOU go block shots, YOU go get rebounds.
How can the "Most Dominant Ever" center NOT WIN ONE single defensive player of the year award?
How can the biggest, most powerful center NOT dominate on defense?

8. Can Shaq create his own shots? No, he establishes position, gets the ball, then basically overpowers people. Kobe shoots from all area, left or right handed, in all kinds of awkward situations, AND makes those shots


given all that, Shaq's not really that dominant, is he?

If Kobe had the size, he'd be the #1 player of all time, b/c he has the passion, desire, and lust for greatness, and he works in the off-season to add to his game.

Can YOU say the same thing about Shaq in his career?

[minew_m]

A lot of Shaq's size is muscle, so he does have some determination. He has to work out to put on some of that! Also I remember last year Phil was saying that Shaq was staying after every practice and shooting more foul shots. He does want to get better.
As for your point about if Kobe was that size, he wouldn't be the #1 player all time for sure! He would have to match up with other centers and be double and even triple teamed everytime he does got the ball.
You talked about him getting better at 3's. He's actually worse than last year! He's shooting 35.8% and last year it was over 38%. Shaq is also a great passer. He averages about 1 less assist per game than Kobe and Kobe is a guard! Can Kobe block shots? No. Can Kobe rebound? He can, but there are others at his position that are better.
Shaq also shoots 58% from the field. Granted they are little 8 foot shots but most of those shots are in double and sometimes triple teams. He also plays against many centers that have a serious height advantage over him and he still manages to get the ball in the bucket. He even manages to get a double double almost every night.
Another plus for having him on the team is that everyone is scared of him. How many players actually challenge him one on one? I have seen many times this year where players drive to the basket but then pass it off right away becuase they see Shaq Diesel in the lane.
Another great stat you can look at is their effiency rating. That just totals the players three major areas (rebounds, assists, and points). Shaqs is 23.9 and Kobe's is 21.95. They are both great players, dont get me wrong. I would love to have either one on my team. It just depends how you look at it when you state which player is better.

[minew_m]

Also about defense Shaq was a Two-time NBA All-Defensive Second Team selection (1999-2000, 2000-01).

[podstock]

Originally posted by minew_m
Also about defense Shaq was a Two-time NBA All-Defensive Second Team selection (1999-2000, 2000-01).

you made good points in your post, and I will leave it at that.

but this post shows you about Shaq's desire

how can someone who is taller (except for Yao, and a couple of non-existent centers like Manute Bol, George Muhresan) and more powerful than anyone else NOT be on the NBA All Defensive FIRST team?

Kobe plays defense, and you cannot deny that. His size prevents him from being totally dominant, but he does try to get the most of his ability.

How is it that Shaq is NOT able to be on the FIRST NBA All Defensive for most of his career, and, just as importantly, NOT WIN 1-2 NBA All Defensive Player of the Year award during his 12-13 yers in the league?

[minew_m]

I cannot deny the fact that Kobe does play defense. The fact that Shaq never won a NBA All Defensive player of the year award really surprised me at first when I thought about it. Then I thought about all the great players that won it during his era. Hakeem (for numerous years), Dikembe (he was basically an only defensive player), Payton for his steals, most recently Ben Wallace has been dominiating, and even Alonzo won one I believe. Those are some pretty amazing players, and most of them where in their prime, to play against. It seemed that the 1990s were dominated by Hakeem and Dikembe. It's hard to make first team with those players in their prime.

[minew_m]

By the way, I just noticed congrats on post #10,000 podstock. That is quite an accomplishment!!!

[skyracer3]

Geez, pod. Congrats on 10,000!!!!! you're a post ™™™™™. haha

[podstock]

Originally posted by minew_m
It's hard to make first team with those players in their prime.

that is what greatness is all about.

if you are better than the rest (aka MDE, Most Dominant Ever), then you must win the awards.

winners never make excuses.

Think Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky - folks who've played in our era.

These 3 played above and beyond everyone else, bar none.

that is what greatness is about, that is what makes legends.

Jerry Rice was the 3rd WR picked in the 1st round. Scouts said he was too slow, despite the multitudinous records he set at NCAA level. In SF in his rookie season, he was booed unmercifully for dropping passes.

but he rose above it all to claim almost every WR record in regular season, playoffs, and Super Bowl.

Even at 41 y/o, with the Bucs destroying the Raiders in the Super Bowl, Rice STILL managed to get loose to catch a TD pass.

Greatness means never having to make excuses.