Official Los Angeles Lakers Thread

[podstock]

Minew, Harris...

hehehehe, thanks

I love this site!

[minew_m]

Originally posted by podstock
that is what greatness is all about.

if you are better than the rest (aka MDE, Most Dominant Ever), then you must win the awards.

winners never make excuses.

Think Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky - folks who've played in our era.

These 3 played above and beyond everyone else, bar none.

that is what greatness is about, that is what makes legends.

Jerry Rice was the 3rd WR picked in the 1st round. Scouts said he was too slow, despite the multitudinous records he set at NCAA level. In SF in his rookie season, he was booed unmercifully for dropping passes.

but he rose above it all to claim almost every WR record in regular season, playoffs, and Super Bowl.

Even at 41 y/o, with the Bucs destroying the Raiders in the Super Bowl, Rice STILL managed to get loose to catch a TD pass.

Greatness means never having to make excuses.

That is all true. But just because he has never won a defensive player of the year award doesn't mean he can't be the most dominant ever (I think he definitely isn't though, Wilt is). Kobe had never won a scoring title (Shaq 2), Kobe has never been voted Finals MVP (Shaq 3), Kobe has never led the league in field goal percentage (Shaq 5), Kobe has never won a regular season MVP (Shaq 1). Still Kobe is a great player and still ranks as one of the best ever even at his young age. You just can't go by one aspect of the game to go by the most dominant player. Its a combination of things. Dikembe was defensive player of the year award many times. You can't say he was one of the most dominant players ever for sure though. He only scored about 10 or 11 points per game during his career. He couldn't even pass the ball. His turnovers doubled his assists. He wasn't an offensive threat. His game was one sided. It's really a combination of things, and in my opinion, Shaq is the most dominant in the game right now. Then I would rank Garnett, Duncan, and then Kobe.

[skyracer3]

Shaq IS the most dominate player in the league!!! But only for the first 3 quarters of the game. lol. Once the 4th quarter rolls around, hes is a 300 pound invisible free throw clanking joke. I think this off season he should work on his shots outside of 8ft instead of gaining weight and watching TV all day. If he can consistenly hit a 8ft hook shot and makes 65% of his free throws...then I could consider him the most dominate player.

And all those stats you mentioned (the scoring title, mvp, and all that), Kobe could win all those next year if parts from Shaq and plays on his own. And if Kobe leaves...Shaqs stats will go down because he will be forced to put up more shots of difficulty and more teams wil double teams him because there is no fear of Kobe burning them from the perimeter.

[minew_m]

But if Kobe does leave then another star player will enter LA with all the money that they will have free. If anything Shaqs stats may go up because he will have more opportunities to shoot. As for Shaq not working in the offseason, I beg to differ. I believe he hired T-macs or something like that personal trainer and did work to get in shape over the summer. So he doesn't sit around and watch TV all day, lol!

[skyracer3]

haha yea i was joking about that part. But I do know one thing. A couple offseasons back he hired this Jewish free throw coach to train him and it worked!! He was shooting 61% last season. So what did Shaq do this last offseason??? HE FIRED HIM! haha.
I think its because he made Shaq work too hard . lol

[minew_m]

lol, could be. Or maybe he had enough of that other personal trainer that he hired. He probably didn't want two. That would be very expensive for him. He might not have been able to afford it, lol jk!

[podstock]

Originally posted by minew_m
Kobe had never won a scoring title (Shaq 2), Kobe has never been voted Finals MVP (Shaq 3), Kobe has never led the league in field goal percentage (Shaq 5), Kobe has never won a regular season MVP (Shaq 1). Still Kobe is a great player and still ranks as one of the best ever even at his young age. You just can't go by one aspect of the game to go by the most dominant player. Its a combination of things. Dikembe was defensive player of the year award many times. You can't say he was one of the most dominant players ever for sure though. He only scored about 10 or 11 points per game during his career. He couldn't even pass the ball. His turnovers doubled his assists. He wasn't an offensive threat. His game was one sided. It's really a combination of things, and in my opinion, Shaq is the most dominant in the game right now. Then I would rank Garnett, Duncan, and then Kobe.

first, Kobe isn't going to win a scoring title until he goes to a team where he's the main guy (Iverson is the ONLY scorer on Philly; T-Mac is the ONLY scorer on Orlando, etc)....as long as Shaq's around, Kobe's not going to get 30 points.

But, last year, he had 8-10 straight games where he scored 40+ points --- we all know he can score.

Second, offense doesn't win games, it's defense. Otherwise, the Mavs would've won the title the last 3 years. So, it's more important to have good offense and great defense.

Third, I don't doubt that Shaq is the most dominant....but, how come he can't go grab 15 rebounds? or block 2-3 shots? The answer is that he doesn't come to play at 100% effort.

Announcers and media in LA have often disparaged Kobe for ball-hogging (much like the Bulls media used to say about Jordan)... but NO ONE, I repeat, NO ONE, has EVER said that Kobe doesn't play at 100%

[podstock]

Originally posted by skyracer3
Shaq IS the most dominate player in the league!!! But only for the first 3 quarters of the game. lol. Once the 4th quarter rolls around, hes is a 300 pound invisible free throw clanking joke. I think this off season he should work on his shots outside of 8ft instead of gaining weight and watching TV all day. If he can consistenly hit a 8ft hook shot and makes 65% of his free throws...then I could consider him the most dominate player.

And all those stats you mentioned (the scoring title, mvp, and all that), Kobe could win all those next year if parts from Shaq and plays on his own. And if Kobe leaves...Shaqs stats will go down because he will be forced to put up more shots of difficulty and more teams wil double teams him because there is no fear of Kobe burning them from the perimeter.

very astute observations.

As has been shown in the past several seasons, when the game is close, Shaq is useless. When you play the elite teams, they will gladly foul Shaq, let him make 1 of 2 at best, and then go score on the other end.

getting 2 points on offense, and giving up 1 on defense, will ALWAYS win you games.

if Kobe were on the LA Clippers, Miami Heat, etc, he'd have no problem averaging 33-35 points. Hell, in the past 6 games, Kobe averaging 33.5 points since All Star break.

[podstock]

Originally posted by minew_m
As for Shaq not working in the offseason, I beg to differ. I believe he hired T-macs or something like that personal trainer and did work to get in shape over the summer. So he doesn't sit around and watch TV all day, lol!

are you SERIOUS?

in the 2000-2003 years, SHAQ SPECIFICALLY SAID THAT HIS SUMMERS ARE FOR HIM.

SHAQ SPECIFICALLY HAS STATED HE USES THE 1ST HALF OF THE NBA SEASON TO GET INTO SHAPE.

Yes, this past off-season, he did hire a trainer and did appear in camp in shape....

you know why this happened?

B/C SHAQ IS NEARING THE END OF HIS CONTRACT, AND WANTS ANOTHER 5-7 YEAR CONTRACT FOR $27-30M EACH YEAR

Kobe improves EVERY year; Kobe works out in the offseason religiously...not just so he can make more money, but b/c he wants to be considered the best ever.

Why doesn't Shaq have this desire that Kobe / Jerry Rice have?

[minew_m]

Originally posted by podstock

Second, offense doesn't win games, it's defense. Otherwise, the Mavs would've won the title the last 3 years. So, it's more important to have good offense and great defense.

Third, I don't doubt that Shaq is the most dominant....but, how come he can't go grab 15 rebounds? or block 2-3 shots? The answer is that he doesn't come to play at 100% effort.

There are some points that I agree with. Kobe can score and he does play hard every night. Shaq though does get 11 rebounds a game which is in the top 10 in the NBA. He also does average about 2 and a half blocks per game, which is again in the top ten or top 5 (can't remember exactly where). That is pretty domniant to me. Also about the comment that you made about defense that wins games. If that were so the Pistons would have won the championship for the past 3 or 4 years. It takes a balance of both. I don't really think offense or defense is more important that on another.