Study claims 'highly engineered explosive' found in WTC rubble

[JeRmZ]

Man Red ... I don't think you'll ever get the answer your looking for. All the non-believers will just chalk it up to "Bush not being the brightest crayon in the box" ... which IMO is the furthest from being true.

What I'd much rather know is how can someone not look back through history and see the information that is there, declassified and readily available for all to read that show without a doubt that there is a group of rich powerful families that run this country and have had their hands (read: pockets) in almost every major war the United States has participated in.

I'm not going to clog this thread with this information but rather start a new thread that I think everyone will find very interesting. At least I know I do!!!

[RedGoneWILD]

I know JeRmZ....my posts have been an excercise in futility...i don't know why i bother

I don't know how many times I can say I don't know what happened on 9.11....all i have is questions, and all that I'm convinced of is that there are some substantial holes in the official story. I've read truther sites and I've read debunker sites....I've read government reports and read independent reports (like the report in the OP about a super thermite material found in WTC dust).

Americans are allowed to question everything about their government, except when it comes to 9.11....then all the sudden you are crazy and a terrorist sympathizer.

[jessejordan419]

lol...i feel like i'm repeating myself over & over and it's still not leading to any meaningful discussion

post #28 has the video of Giuliani saying he was told the buildings would collapse and was evacuated from WTC7, as well as audio of Bush saying he saw the plane and it was one terrible pilot, and a video of Bush giving a press conference on the white house lawn where he talks about explosives in the WTC

post #34 has the quotes of BOTH times Bush described how he found out about the attacks

sorry, when you said page 3 & 4, I've only got 2 pages, so I thought you were referring to the thread pages, not the pages of this thread....



I don't know what is relevant at all about the Guliani interview. Everything sounds perfectly logical....they could tell the building was going to collapse, evacuated, and the building collapsed.



As for the bush comments, in my opinion, this is typical bush idiocy. To me it looks as if he's just confused, as usual. He has been instructed to say certain things, and he stumbles over it as usual. How many times has he mispoken? Too numerous to count. Every night Letterman, the nutjobs on Comedy Central, and others would play him stumbling over his words.





But to entertain your conspiricy theories.........

If I were inclined to believe a conspiricy theory, I would be pretty certain bush had almost nothing, or nothing to do with it at all. If this was an inside job, it was orchestrated by Bilderbergs/Council on Foreign Relations/E.U. & U.N. leaders/etc. They would have much more to profit from this than bush and his cronies. They have the means above the C.I.A., and the C.I.A. would not be inclined to attack Americans. They may do questionable things to other countries and people in other countries for the benefit of Americans, but not to Americans.

[jessejordan419]

I know JeRmZ....my posts have been an excercise in futility...i don't know why i bother

I don't know how many times I can say I don't know what happened on 9.11....all i have is questions, and all that I'm convinced of is that there are some substantial holes in the official story. I've read truther sites and I've read debunker sites....I've read government reports and read independent reports (like the report in the OP about a super thermite material found in WTC dust).

Americans are allowed to question everything about their government, except when it comes to 9.11....then all the sudden you are crazy and a terrorist sympathizer.

I used to question 9/11 myself. I never thought that bush and his cronies orchestrated it, but I thought there were things that didn't smell right. The more I questioned things, the more answers I got, and the more I believe we were attacked.

The defense department's defense initiative of 2001 was the most stirring to me. Written by Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, etc., it says something along the lines of, "to go from passive foreign policy interactions to direct foreign policy interactions, something is needed to bring American sentiment to support such actions. Something on the scale of Pearl Harbor."

This got me questioning because Pearl Harbor is what everyone likened 9/11 to. So for a short time I entertained the idea that they allowed 9/11 to happen, not orchestrated it, but allowed it.

Reality and common sense stepped in, and I no longer entertain these imiginations. But I won't refer to you as crazy for doing so either.

These radical mooslims attacked us over and over during the clinton years with nothing being done about it. They finally got their chance to make a big splash. That's it as far as I'm concerned. Unless you get a confession from these people or some actual hard evidence that has legs, you won't budge me. But I certainly won't call you crazy.

As long as people are questioning these things, that's just more attention to be diverted from what's really going on......

Just had an epiphany, maybe bush slipped these comments on purpose to get you and other conspiracy theorists together to take ya'll's attention off of what they really were wanting to do.........

[RedGoneWILD]

Thanks for the response. Other than JeRmZ, I think you might be the only person that will still respond to this thread. At least you’re making me appear like I’m not just talking to myself….haha. Anyway, I wanted to fact check everything I typed before I posted.

I don't know what is relevant at all about the Guliani interview. Everything sounds perfectly logical....they could tell the building was going to collapse, evacuated, and the building collapsed.

here's why Giuliani's comments are important, of course in my opinion...

to my knowledge, no high rise building has collapsed due to fire before 9.11...only from earthquakes or controlled demolition. There also hasn't been a high rise building collapse since 9.11, which I showed some pictures of earlier in this thread. Obviously these other skyrise fires weren't started by airplanes crashing into them, but still...it’s the fires that we are told collapsed the twin towers & WTC7. How could they tell the towers would collapse, who made that determination and when was it made? These are legitimate questions that I don’t believe have been resolved.

Giuliani was in midtown having breakfast at the Peninsula Hotel when the north tower was hit and was driven towards WTC7, where the Office of Emergency Management was located on the 23rd floor. When he arrived just a few minutes after the South tower had been hit, he met with his Police Chief Bernard Kerik outside of WTC7, who informed him that OEM had been evacuated. Between 9:03, 9:30 & 9:44 (differing accounts between Giuliani, 9.11 Commission & NIST), the OEM at WTC7 is completely evacuated, and a new command post is set up at 75 Barclay St….which is right across the street from WTC7. Giuliani & Kerik walk to the fire command post on West St, and then back to Barclay at around 9:45. Somewhere at this time is when somebody from OEM determines or is given information that the buildings have been compromised and start ordering evacuations.
An EMT named Richard Zarillo confirms this account in an interview he gave to the WTC task force.

A few minutes later, John came to me and said you need to go find Chief Ganci and relay the following message: that the buildings have been compromised, we need to evacuate, they're going to collapse. I said okay. I went down Vesey Street towards West.

...

As I was walking towards the Fire command post, I found Steve Mosiello. I said, Steve, where's the boss? I have to give him a message. He said, well, what's the message? I said the buildings are going to collapse; we need to evac everybody out. With a very confused look he said who told you that? I said I was just with John at OEM. OEM says the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get out. He escorted me over to Chief Ganci. He said, hey, Pete, we got a message that the buildings are going to collapse. His reply was who the **** told you that? Then Steve brought me in and with Chief Ganci, Commissioner Feehan, Steve, I believe Chief Turi was initially there, I said, listen, I was just at OEM. The message I was given was that the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get our people out. At that moment, this thunderous, rolling roar came down and that's when the building came down, the first tower came down.

It doesn’t clarify who John is in the entire interview, but I believe it is John Odermatt, who was Commissioner of OEM, and who was with Mayor Giuliani. My question is who made the call that the buildings had been compromised, who passed that word on to OEM, and why has nobody paid attention to this? This is very significant, because I don’t think anybody was thinking the towers would completely collapse.

Giuliani on 9/11/01 - "We were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was gonna collapse"

Giuliani on 4/19/07 - "It occurred to us all that they might ultimately collapse," in referring to the twin towers.

Giuliani on 5/29/07 - "I didn't realize the towers would collapse. I never realized that." He later added, "No one that I know of had any idea they would implode. That was a complete surprise."

This man ran for president because of his 9/11 ties and has made millions of dollars in speaker fees since...you'd think he'd at least be able to keep his stories straight.

As for the bush comments, in my opinion, this is typical bush idiocy. To me it looks as if he's just confused, as usual. He has been instructed to say certain things, and he stumbles over it as usual. How many times has he mispoken? Too numerous to count. Every night Letterman, the nutjobs on Comedy Central, and others would play him stumbling over his words.

There’s no doubt Bush is a very bad speaker, and if he had just described this once, I might be more inclined to believe it was just a slip. But he describes the exact same scenario TWICE! Furthermore, he entered the classroom at 9:02 AM, and by that time should have known for certain that there were hijacked aircraft. He spoke to Condi Rice at approximately 8:55 AM and it’s just simply not plausible that she didn’t know about the hijacked aircraft at this point, for reasons which I’ve explained earlier.

Not to mention the fact that in his speech to the nation in the evening of 9.11, he completely contradicts both statements by saying “Immediately following the first attack, I implemented our government’s emergency response plans.” No you didn’t, you walked into a Florida Elementary School and stayed for half an hour. Meanwhile, around the same time that Andy Card leaned in to whisper “America is under attack” in Bush’s ear, VP Dick Cheney had Secret Service agents burst into his White House office and lead him to an underground bunker. All Bush had was Ari Fleischer in the back of the Florida classroom holding up a piece of paper that said “DON’T SAY ANYTHING YET”. So I think it’s very reasonable to ask why Bush wasn’t being escorted out of the school.

Maybe if we waterboarded him, Cheney, Rumsfeld & Rice 183 times, we’d get the truth out of them?

But to entertain your conspiricy theories.........

If I were inclined to believe a conspiricy theory, I would be pretty certain bush had almost nothing, or nothing to do with it at all. If this was an inside job, it was orchestrated by Bilderbergs/Council on Foreign Relations/E.U. & U.N. leaders/etc. They would have much more to profit from this than bush and his cronies. They have the means above the C.I.A., and the C.I.A. would not be inclined to attack Americans. They may do questionable things to other countries and people in other countries for the benefit of Americans, but not to Americans.

First off, 19 hijackers with boxcutters is a conspiracy theory…Just because it comes from the government doesn’t mean it’s not. You’re probably on to something though with the CFR ….JeRmZ has already touched on that, including Aaron Russo claiming Nick Rockefeller told him what would transpire almost a year before 9/11 and tried to recruit him to join the CFR.

Here’s a conspiracy theory for you…On September 12th, ABC & the Associated Press report that one of the hijackers passports was found a couple of blocks from the WTC. If you believe that’s authentic and was inside the plane and somehow managed to pass through the building and land on a New York city street, It sounds like you would be the conspiracy theorist. The 9/11 Commission report also claims this is authentic, as well as two other passports that were found in the Flight 93 wreckage. Here’s one of them…

I used to question 9/11 myself. I never thought that bush and his cronies orchestrated it, but I thought there were things that didn't smell right. The more I questioned things, the more answers I got, and the more I believe we were attacked.

The defense department's defense initiative of 2001 was the most stirring to me. Written by Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, etc., it says something along the lines of, "to go from passive foreign policy interactions to direct foreign policy interactions, something is needed to bring American sentiment to support such actions. Something on the scale of Pearl Harbor."

This got me questioning because Pearl Harbor is what everyone likened 9/11 to. So for a short time I entertained the idea that they allowed 9/11 to happen, not orchestrated it, but allowed it.

Reality and common sense stepped in, and I no longer entertain these imiginations. But I won't refer to you as crazy for doing so either.

Can I ask what common sense stepped in? Was it just simply the idea that our own government would allow this to happen that made you stop questioning? Here’s what you’re referring to

Section V of Rebuilding America's Defenses, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", includes the sentence: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor"

So couldn’t they have used 9.11 as a way to achieve the goals they wanted to accomplish for some time? Or to speed up the process in implementing their goals?

These radical mooslims attacked us over and over during the clinton years with nothing being done about it. They finally got their chance to make a big splash. That's it as far as I'm concerned. Unless you get a confession from these people or some actual hard evidence that has legs, you won't budge me. But I certainly won't call you crazy.

You won’t get a confession from them in the sense that you want, but there is lots of evidence….let me ask you why the report in the OP has no merit? Because after 7 pages not a single person has explained why it’s not credible at all? I’ve posed questions asking why it can’t be taken seriously, but no responses.

As long as people are questioning these things, that's just more attention to be diverted from what's really going on......

Just had an epiphany, maybe bush slipped these comments on purpose to get you and other conspiracy theorists together to take ya'll's attention off of what they really were wanting to do.........

Well yes, that’s entirely possible…but wouldn’t that suggest involvement?

[JeRmZ]

But to entertain your conspiricy theories.........

If I were inclined to believe a conspiricy theory, I would be pretty certain bush had almost nothing, or nothing to do with it at all. If this was an inside job, it was orchestrated by Bilderbergs/Council on Foreign Relations/E.U. & U.N. leaders/etc. They would have much more to profit from this than bush and his cronies. They have the means above the C.I.A., and the C.I.A. would not be inclined to attack Americans. They may do questionable things to other countries and people in other countries for the benefit of Americans, but not to Americans.

Well we already know from my post about the Bush Crime Family Syndicate, that the Bush family was (and probably still is) highly involved with the Rockefeller's and the Rockefellers are major players in the Bilderburh society. So in that sense you can't really say that Bush had nothing to do with it if indeed you believe that it was the Bilderburgs and the CFR since they are all connected.

BTW jesse if you haven't read my thread on the Bush family, it's interesting and you should check it out. I'm working on one right now for the Rockefellers ... they will take me a bit longer since their corruption and greed goes waaaaaaaaaaaay back!

[jessejordan419]

here's why Giuliani's comments are important, of course in my opinion...

to my knowledge, no high rise building has collapsed due to fire before 9.11...only from earthquakes or controlled demolition. There also hasn't been a high rise building collapse since 9.11, which I showed some pictures of earlier in this thread. Obviously these other skyrise fires weren't started by airplanes crashing into them, but still...it’s the fires that we are told collapsed the twin towers & WTC7. How could they tell the towers would collapse, who made that determination and when was it made? These are legitimate questions that I don’t believe have been resolved.

I don't think they will ever be resolved, just like questions from the Kennedy assassination. Unless real evidence comes forward, 50 years from not(if Jesus doesn't come back before then), we will still be having these conversations.....

This is very significant, because I don’t think anybody was thinking the towers would completely collapse.

Giuliani on 9/11/01 - "We were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was gonna collapse"

Giuliani on 4/19/07 - "It occurred to us all that they might ultimately collapse," in referring to the twin towers.

Giuliani on 5/29/07 - "I didn't realize the towers would collapse. I never realized that." He later added, "No one that I know of had any idea they would implode. That was a complete surprise."

This man ran for president because of his 9/11 ties and has made millions of dollars in speaker fees since...you'd think he'd at least be able to keep his stories straight.

I believe these people were prepared for the worst possible scenarios, and were making preparations because those scenarios were in play. They had already been "attacked" in the first WTC bombing.

As for these Giuliani statements, I always thought that guy was a slimeball, but I would suspect he was answering different reporters/questioners differently. He was running for office at this time, and probably was playing "lawyerball" with the reporters and giving answers that would make him look best in each specific interview.

Even though I think he's a slimeball, I don't think he had any beforehand knowledge of the attacks, or knowledge of "controlled demolitions".

There’s no doubt Bush is a very bad speaker, and if he had just described this once, I might be more inclined to believe it was just a slip. But he describes the exact same scenario TWICE! Furthermore, he entered the classroom at 9:02 AM, and by that time should have known for certain that there were hijacked aircraft. He spoke to Condi Rice at approximately 8:55 AM and it’s just simply not plausible that she didn’t know about the hijacked aircraft at this point, for reasons which I’ve explained earlier.

I'm not in law enforcement, so I wouldn't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure that pre-9/11, the president would not be notified for a simple plane hijacking. Local law inforcement would be first to know, then FBI, NSA, etc. It is law enforcements policy not to negotiate with terrorists/hijackers, so there would be no need to notify the president.

Not to mention the fact that in his speech to the nation in the evening of 9.11, he completely contradicts both statements by saying “Immediately following the first attack, I implemented our government’s emergency response plans.” No you didn’t, you walked into a Florida Elementary School and stayed for half an hour.

Well, he was already in the school when the attacks happened. Immediately following would be when he was escorted back into the limo. And of course he would embellish a little self-aggrandizement.

Meanwhile, around the same time that Andy Card leaned in to whisper “America is under attack” in Bush’s ear, VP Dick Cheney had Secret Service agents burst into his White House office and lead him to an underground bunker. All Bush had was Ari Fleischer in the back of the Florida classroom holding up a piece of paper that said “DON’T SAY ANYTHING YET”. So I think it’s very reasonable to ask why Bush wasn’t being escorted out of the school.

They wouldn't want to panic the kids. Think of how aweful public relations nightmare that would be to have dozens of secret servicemen burst in with guns drawn huddling around bush like ants on a mound.......

The nightmares and lawsuits would last for years.....

Maybe if we waterboarded him, Cheney, Rumsfeld & Rice 183 times, we’d get the truth out of them?

I'd be all for it if we would learn anything. Of course if they didn't have anything to do with it, and were telling the truth, people would say, "oh, they're just hardened criminals and would take it to the grave".

First off, 19 hijackers with boxcutters is a conspiracy theory…Just because it comes from the government doesn’t mean it’s not.

Why would they want to waste a perfect oppurtunity to scare people even more to enact laws/policies that would ordinarily never be allowed.....

You’re probably on to something though with the CFR ….JeRmZ has already touched on that, including Aaron Russo claiming Nick Rockefeller told him what would transpire almost a year before 9/11 and tried to recruit him to join the CFR.

I've heard that one too. Hearsay, and I'll try to find the site I saw that debunked that myth as well.

Here’s a conspiracy theory for you…On September 12th, ABC & the Associated Press report that one of the hijackers passports was found a couple of blocks from the WTC. If you believe that’s authentic and was inside the plane and somehow managed to pass through the building and land on a New York city street, It sounds like you would be the conspiracy theorist. The 9/11 Commission report also claims this is authentic, as well as two other passports that were found in the Flight 93 wreckage. Here’s one of them…

I don't have a hard time believing that one either. Fire and explosions are curious things. Everything can be toast but a few simple objects that are easily burned/destroyed. I mean, there are fires where fire-resistant safes are melted and twisted, but some family photos are basically un-touched.

Can I ask what common sense stepped in? Was it just simply the idea that our own government would allow this to happen that made you stop questioning?

Common sense was telling me that out of the amount and grand scope of people, planning, etc. that would be needed for this, Americans would stop and say, "What the heck am I doing? Thousands of innocent Americans are going to die for this, how can I do this?".

I can see people like the Oklahoma bomber being able to kill that many Americans, or kill at all, but CIA agents? NSA agents?

But if it were true, someone would have snapped a photo, printed some documents, etc. to have some proof and step forward. I can't accept that Americans did this to Americans and their conscience if fine with it......unless there was some actual evidence on the table.

[jessejordan419]

Well we already know from my post about the Bush Crime Family Syndicate, that the Bush family was (and probably still is) highly involved with the Rockefeller's and the Rockefellers are major players in the Bilderburh society. So in that sense you can't really say that Bush had nothing to do with it if indeed you believe that it was the Bilderburgs and the CFR since they are all connected.

BTW jesse if you haven't read my thread on the Bush family, it's interesting and you should check it out. I'm working on one right now for the Rockefellers ... they will take me a bit longer since their corruption and greed goes waaaaaaaaaaaay back!

Yeah, I know about the criminal aspect of what these people do. But it's stuff like oil price fixing when bush I got the saudi's to double the price of oil for no reason. They learned how to do it from bush I, and now we keep getting screwed.

Yeah, the Rockefellers, the Carnagies, even Henry Ford. However, you're talking about new yorkers killing thousands of innocent new yorkers. I'm not from new york, never been there, but I simply don't accept that without hard evidence, not just people misspeaking a few times.

Keep me posted on your thread, I'd love to see what you've got on these people. It's been a while and I've forgotten most of what I've learned about 'em.

Do they meet at Bohemian Grove as well?

[GrimUSMC]

Im not goign to try to get into it with you Red, because as I ve said, I didnt research anythign, nor am I going to. I do wantot point somethign otu though that you seem to be leaving out.

when you point to events of that day, and things peopel said that day, Im pretty certain there was a large amoutn of Chaos and uncertainty. It is completely within reason for peopel to have misspoke, thought they were told something, and relay messages backwords or completely out of order. The Human element is huge. also the part Jesse pointed otu abotu the crazy things fire does is also very true.

Any conspiracy thoughts fall apart over simpel answers.
1. Its too large. the Government cant run a country, what makes you think they would be able to perfectly cover up a conspiracy of this magnatude?

2. The fact that they have video evidence of the highjackers, and recorded phone calls from peopel on flight 93 sayign the plane was highjacked kind of seals that one. And there is no way they were in on it. Radical Muslims woudl nto work with Westerners in any way. And normal muslims would not kill that many people.

3. All of your theories about the demise of the building are just that, theories. No highrise has been blasted with planes that large befire or since, and likely (HOPEFULLY) never will eb again. So you cant definitively say what did happen. you can speculate, and you can take a logical guess, but nothign definitive unless you rebuild the towers exactly, then fly a fully loaded 747 into it, thats it. the evidence proposed seems logical and very reasonable on top of what I saw with my own two eyes. Liek I said before too, you can twist evidence any way you want, hence my Magic Bullet example. That can be twisted either way, and shockingly the correct version is not the popular consipiracy theorist version. theres a reason that the simplest answer is usually the most likely.

[RedGoneWILD]

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