Datsyuk chokejob cost Wings?

[gregmal05]

Well, after being out of town for the past few days, I got caught up on many of the threads here and was amazed by how many were either "crybaby Crosby" or "Cindy" bashing threads. Yet I was thinking about it, and it really does not make any sense how some players are always being criticized, while others always get a free pass. Case in point is Pavel Datsyuk.

Here's a guy who is amazingly considered by some to be "the best player in the league"?!? Before we start making excuses about the injury, lets not forget he was useless before it, and even pretty ineffective once he came back. He had 1 goal the entire playoffs, way back in game 2 of round 1!! Yet no one labels him a choker? Outside of 2 years, he has always been terrible in the postseason. What is the difference between the 5 points in 6 games that make Joe Thornton a choker, and the 9 points in 16 games Datsyuk had? Does simply hiding out on a team that can get by without you make Datsyuk less of a choker than Thornton?

[Jaredshilling]

id say more like marian hossa chokejob cost them....he signs with the wings and leaves the pens because he thinks he has a legitimate chance to win it all with the wings, and turns out hes not hoisting the stanley cup anyways.. 0 goals and like 2-3 assists in the finals alone says that he didnt show up. Last yr he proved to be a formiddable offensive threat for the pens and even for the wings durning the regular season but instead he's watching his teammates from just a yr ago celebrate without him.

all that talent, and still cupless!!

Go Pens!

[flemingc04]

Wow, interesting thread! I honestly never realized how little Datsyuk contributed throughout the playoffs. I wonder why the media never made much/any mention of this? I don't think I heard it on the CBC throughout the finals and yet I don't know how many times both the CBC and TSN mentioned Hossa not having a goal against the Pens.

[gregmal05]

id say more like marian hossa chokejob cost them....he signs with the wings and leaves the pens because he thinks he has a legitimate chance to win it all with the wings, and turns out hes not hoisting the stanley cup anyways.. 0 goals and like 2-3 assists in the finals alone says that he didnt show up. Last yr he proved to be a formiddable offensive threat for the pens and even for the wings durning the regular season but instead he's watching his teammates from just a yr ago celebrate without him.

all that talent, and still cupless!!

Go Pens!

And thats fair, but even Hossa did more than Datsyuk both in the Finals and in every other series as well and even he is taking heat. Yet "the best player in hockey" only putting one puck in the net when it matters most is not worthy of blame?

[doniceage]

First let me mention this. What is considered a Choke. A guy that averages a half a point is a choke now? He played how many games 16 correct and he had 9 points. As well he plays two way hockey which is how his foot was injured was it not? To me someone that plays two way hockey is more important than any offensive scorer alone. Pavel Bure comes to mind big time.

So your saying Pavel D choked cost the wings the CUP. I think that the most ludicrous statement to be made. If that the case there a lot of other players you need to look at that did not step up as well.

Remember Shanny totally disappeared in the 1st round playoff loss to Edmonton in 7 and he took no blame as it was all leveled on Cujo who lost 3 games by 1 goal. Of course he took all the heat which I think is unfair.

In the end is this a team game or a individual game? I would take anyone that could set up 8 assist in 16 games day in day out plus play 2 way hockey. Remember when he came back it was stated that he was not 100 percent with his speed but he did contribute his first game back. I wish I had more chokejobs like him. He did not play like he was capable but he never been a elite player in scoring if you look at his stats compared with the NHL league leaders. If you look at assist it definitely the same and that shows in his scoring the 16 games 1 goal and 8 assist which is setting up others.

Also, when he came back he was not back 100 percent and could this have cost him a step on the ice and affected his scoring? I would glady take his stats in the playoffs as his past 2 years his points were close to 1 point a game for 2 Playoff Series. How many playoff players do that and are called a chokejob when they slip to a half a goal per game.

I never crush a player that willing to play defense and put himself in harm way. As not many players that are the supposed star of the team are willing to do that. But the wings do a lot of that from 1st liner to 4th liner. I think since the wings lost your looking to single out one player. Single out the team as a whole not one player.

As for Crosby the reason people hate him is his actions not his play. As most people will admit he one of the best 3 players in the game. Of course hitting guys in the groin, jumping a player after a faceoff who not suspecting it, being voted by 52 percent of the NHL players in a large poll as a whiner, the tap on the foot, and the list goes on and on are all actions on the ice and have nothing to do with performance as his stats have never been the issue in my book.

Don

[LT21Titans27]

Hossa cost them more, Datsyuk was injured and probably wasnt even 100 percent yet. I feel bad for Hossa though, all he wanted was a cup, its gotta be the worst feeling knowing he was on the wrong side of the same b attle for two years

[gregmal05]

First let me mention this. What is considered a Choke. A guy that averages a half a point is a choke now? He played how many games 16 correct and he had 9 points. As well he plays two way hockey which is how his foot was injured was it not? To me someone that plays two way hockey is more important than any offensive scorer alone. Pavel Bure comes to mind big time.

First, I'll say that the title of the thread is slightly tongue in cheek, more so just poking fun at the whole "choke/clutch" believers. However getting to the point, Datsyuk is just about a PPG(point per game) player in the regular season. Then come playoff time his PPg ratio dips enormously, and is even worse if you look at what he has done on a year to year basis outside 06-07 and 07-08.

Second the whole "2 way hockey" thing gets completely blown out of proportion, especially for a guy who plays on an excellent overall defensive team. While Datsyuk may be a great defensive player, the effect of that on the score sheet (in terms of goals prevented) is very minimal.

So your saying Pavel D choked cost the wings the CUP. I think that the most ludicrous statement to be made. If that the case there a lot of other players you need to look at that did not step up as well.

Had the supposed best player in hockey done a little more offensively then yes they probably would have won the Cup.

In the end is this a team game or a individual game?

Of course it is a team game, but certain teams are built around certain players and if those players do not produce then the team fails.

Also, when he came back he was not back 100 percent and could this have cost him a step on the ice and affected his scoring? I would glady take his stats in the playoffs as his past 2 years his points were close to 1 point a game for 2 Playoff Series. How many playoff players do that and are called a chokejob when they slip to a half a goal per game.

Thats my point. He went from a PPG player to a guy who scored 1 goal in 16 games, and otherwise just primarily racked up most of his points in blowouts.

[CSSports]

Datsyuk (2 assists in the 3 games (both in the 5-0 game) he played in the Finals but overall a disappointing playoff year for a guy who avg 1.2 pts throughout the season and MVP canidate)
97pts in 81 games = 1.2 pts per game
9pts in 16 games = .56 pts per game

Hossa (not horrible in terms of small decline when the teams needs it the most but key # here is Final Round pts....1 assist)
71pts in 74 games = .96 pts per game
15pts in 23 games = .65 pts per game

This is a team sport but would Washington win without Ovie? Would Pitts win without the 2 leading scorers of the playoffs? Most likely not.....So although Hockey is a team sport, everyone has to play their role - The Defensive d-men play defense, the offensive d-men lead the rush, the defensive forwards will play against the top lines but the scorers need to score....For being a MVP canidate (Top 3), Datsyuk did not live up to the expectations.....

Just think of how easy Detroit would have got to the Finals if they contributed throughout the playoffs...The series against Anaheim would have been a breeze

[doniceage]

First, I'll say that the title of the thread is slightly tongue in cheek, more so just poking fun at the whole "choke/clutch" believers. However getting to the point, Datsyuk is just about a PPG(point per game) player in the regular season. Then come playoff time his PPg ratio dips enormously, and is even worse if you look at what he has done on a year to year basis outside 06-07 and 07-08.

Second the whole "2 way hockey" thing gets completely blown out of proportion, especially for a guy who plays on an excellent overall defensive team. While Datsyuk may be a great defensive player, the effect of that on the score sheet (in terms of goals prevented) is very minimal.



Had the supposed best player in hockey done a little more offensively then yes they probably would have won the Cup.




Of course it is a team game, but certain teams are built around certain players and if those players do not produce then the team fails.




Thats my point. He went from a PPG player to a guy who scored 1 goal in 16 games, and otherwise just primarily racked up most of his points in blowouts.

Greg you say if you look outside 07/08 and 06/07 is that fair. As those were two years they made decent runs. In two seasons they wings only played 9 games. Hardly something to take a big overview. As anyone can get in short streaks. So you can't really factor those in. Of course with 12 ans 10 games (22 total) He put up 14 points which is about almost a .7.

Also remember he never became a 1 pt player til over 04/05 even though he been in the league several years. As he made progress every year.

Again where have you seen me say he the best player in hockey. I don't see too many news articles even putting him up there as the BEST PLAYER. I bet if you look most of it would be Detroit papers talking their team up. Only time his name comes up with As for goal scoring you see me say over and over Ovie, Crosby, and Malkin with no discussion. Of course if you want to talk two way hockey there is a argument.

If two way hockey is overblown I clearly remember last year when I thought Pittsburgh was going to make a comeback and possibly win the cup then when the Wings as a team led by Zetty I believe was on a 3 on 5 with the pens on a 2 man advantage. They killed that and that what two way hockey is all about a team that can play like that. Some stars I would not want to put in that position. Sorry I wouldn't want Ovie in that kind of situation.

I coached team sports in organized setting and to me I rather have a balanced team as when one guy is the main guy tomorrow it the next one. As it a team sport and no matter how great that one player is usually they cannot overcome a good balanced team that has players that can step up their game when needed.

My question to you would be if Hossa and Pavel are such big chokers why were the Wings even in the Cup Finals to begin with. As they should been sitting at home. I mean Lord knows we don't even have a good goalie so again why are we there. As it a team sport and it not based on one guy choking but a team that doesn't step up.

It cool to be tongue in cheek but I am not big on chokes unless it a pattern for a long time career. I posted a article that focused on this before the Playoffs began. As it stated most guys numbers on a average go down when the playoffs starts as Defensive hockey take over. As I think Mark Messier was the best when the playoffs came compared to his regular numbers as his stats always went up in the playoffs. Of course the majority of NHL'ers scoring goes down. So it not a choke it the average of most players to do that. Last but not least you want to focus on the one goal but leave out the 8 assist. It all about lightning up the lamp and no matter if it assist or goal who cares as it a point race.

Don

[duwal]

and people say Thornton chokes when he's nearly a point a game average each year in the playoffs