Site Rule question....

**hawk2618** · 04-21-2012, 06:13 PM

Imac..I realize you feel alone on this ,so i'll back you up on this to an extent.If you ask me if this is a silly rule,I wholeheartitly will agree it is a ridiculous rule.I've dealt on ebay since 2001 and feedback fraud(if thats the term were going to use)is done all the time there.I purchased 8 flights for my darts from one ebayer awhile ago,proceeded to pay for them,and then all 8 flights were mailed to me in 1 package(which makes common sense seeing someone will save money on postage).When the deal was complete,I actually was able to give the seller 8 feedbacks.Heres the catch.Not at any time did I receive a letter from ebay accusing me of "feedback fraud" with one ebayer.I honestly never knew "feedback fraud" even existed,seeing I never even heard of it. If I hadn't come across this thread,I too, would have never known about this rule on this site.However,seeing it is a "SCF" rule,and "WE" agreed to all terms,it must be followed without question.I would suggest you read "ALL"the rules like I have.I'm sure you will find a few more rules that will shake your head.
~~Dave C.

**duane1969** · 04-22-2012, 11:23 AM

For the most part the rule was created for two reasons.

1) To prevent people from skirting the MSF rule for new members. If we didn't have this rule in place then someone who wanted to scam could come on the site, buy 20 base cards for .10 each, list each of them as a seperate deal and in a matter of days have his 20 trades done. Shortly thereafter he would scam someone for a lot of money or hi-end cards and people would be asking "Why was he allowed to do 20 trades with one person and get his MSF removed so quickly?"

In fact, I imagine that the very same people who don't like this rule would be the first to complain that SCF didn't do enough to protect them from getting scammed by allowing members to get multiple feedbacks that way.

2) If you look on the front page in the upper right corner you will see that we keep a running tally of the current month's top traders on the site. The top person each month gets recognized as "Trader of the Month" and gets a little tag added to their profile to recognize their status. Those people get there by doing lots of INDIVIDUAL trades. Would it be fair for them to get bumped down the list by someone who did 5 trades of 10 cards each but listed them as 50 seperate trades?

Should the person recognized as the top trader on the site get that recognition for doing 60 or 80 seperate trades or for doing 6 or 8 trades of 10 cards each?

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As for the eBay comment. You are incorrect. You can leave feedback for multiple items, but your first feedback for a person is the only one that counts towards their rating for items purchased during that week. If you leave feedback for 10 items that you bought and were shipped to you at the same time, they get a bump in their rating of 1 point, not 10 points.

Directly copied from eBay's website.

What if I buy multiple items from the same seller or sell multiple items to the same buyer?

You should leave Feedback for each sale. However, we calculate the other member's Feedback score differently depending on whether the sales occurred in the same week. For Feedback purposes, we define a week as Monday through Sunday, Pacific Time.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/feedback/howitworks.html

So SCF's policy is better than eBay's. On ebay it doesn't matter if you ship seperately or in the same package, you get one feedback per week. On SCF, if you ship in seperate packages you get feedback for every deal.

**hawk2618** · 04-22-2012, 01:10 PM

Ok..that answers my question why I didn't get a feedback fraud from ebay...and seeing one actually leaves 8 single feedbacks,they'd never know that only one counts unless they read the small print like you did :) Thank-you for your response.Now...as far as "leaving feedback"is concerned.If its a rule and you get an infraction for false feedback,why isnt there a step where a feedback "has" to be left for an honest trade?Let me explain:I was told by a Mod.that "feedback" is an option by traders.I disagree with this practice.
Why can't there be a "received item" where the "trade completed" is and have "leave feeback" inbetween them? So it would go something like this......click "received item"...then proceed to "leave feedback"...and then proceed to click "trade completed"I firmly believe that Feedback is crucial,especially to the rookies who are trying to get out of the "must send first" status.It would be truly obsurd if a rookie pm a Mod saying they never received a "rating" from a transaction to go from 3 to 4 and then be told"FEEDBACK IS AN OPTION,IT IS NOT MANDATORY".That answer wouldn't want me to hang around any site if I'm not going to get rewarded for a honest completed trade.In other words....If I made a purchase as a rookie,lets say I send 100.00 payal, and never got a rating for it to move up the latter.That would surely leave bitter taste in my mouth and make me not want to leave feedback on ANY of my transactions.This is a suggestion that doesn't need to be done today, tomorrow,next week or even next month.But I do think it needs to be considered in the future so every"honest" transaction gets its reward,seeing a "Non-honest" one gets an infraction.
~~Dave C.

PS: When I don't receive a "feedback" for a complete transaction,in my eyes,its not complete!

**hawk2618** · 04-22-2012, 01:25 PM

1) To prevent people from skirting the MSF rule for new members. If we didn't have this rule in place then someone who wanted to scam could come on the site, buy 20 base cards for .10 each, list each of them as a seperate deal and in a matter of days have his 20 trades done. Shortly thereafter he would scam someone for a lot of money or hi-end cards and people would be asking "Why was he allowed to do 20 trades with one person and get his MSF removed so quickly?"

I see your reasoning above,but in all actuality.Do you "really" think "anyone" in their sound mind would even consider on posting a trade for .10 ten times??? If the site can catch 2 feedbacks one after another to one trader to bag them for "feedback fraud" I would think it would be extremely easy to catch ten .10 posts in a row,seeing each trade is viewable to all members here.Don't get me wrong..I see why,I just think the odds of it happening has to be pretty rare.Just curious on the number of members(rough estimate) whos actually tried posting ten .10 trades to one member. ~~Dave C.

**duane1969** · 04-22-2012, 01:39 PM

We can't force people to leave feedback just like we can't force people to use Beckett BV or eBay SV as a basis for their card values. All we can do is limit what people are allowed to do.

Per the issue of people trying to commit feedback fraud to quickly get rid of the new member 20 trade MSF tag, yes it happens. More often than you think. No, they are not all scammers, but most new members don't like being forced to send first for their first 20 trades and more than a few have tried to find a way around the rule.

I wouldn't know how many have tried it, but I worked disputes for 1.5 years and saw feedback fraud attempts on a pretty regular basis. Actual infractions for it have only been handed out a few dozen times, but you must remember that just like what happened with the OP, a warning is issued first, so there are most likely quite a few other instances that occurred once but never happened again after the warning was issued.

**hawk2618** · 04-22-2012, 02:04 PM

Forcing left feedback is nowhere near the same as forcing members to use Beckett BV or even ebay BV.BV is to each his own.I would value a Gretzky RC very differently than someone else,and so on ,and so on with different cards.That is something that is uncontrolable for SCF.As far as feedback,that is something SCF has control over.I don't see why a "step" can't be included,where a trader would have NO CHOICE but to leave a feedback in order to complete a trade.
Re-coding the site to do this would take time,but it can be done.
I just don't see how a 100.00 paypal trade can be ignored without a rating.
That makes absolutely no sense to me.~~Dave C.

**duane1969** · 04-22-2012, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by hawk2618 View Post

Forcing left feedback is nowhere near the same as forcing members to use Beckett BV or even ebay BV.BV is to each his own.I would value a Gretzky RC very differently than someone else,and so on ,and so on with different cards.That is something that is uncontrolable for SCF.As far as feedback,that is something SCF has control over.I don't see why a "step" can't be included,where a trader would have NO CHOICE but to leave a feedback in order to complete a trade.
Re-coding the site to do this would take time,but it can be done.
I just don't see how a 100.00 paypal trade can be ignored without a rating.
That makes absolutely no sense to me.~~Dave C.

This has been discussed before. The primary issue is it would have to be coded into the site software which is pretty extensive and costly to do.

**hawk2618** · 04-22-2012, 08:37 PM

Adding 1 step is extensive and costly??....thats a copout sorry.Cmon..How much can it really cost???? Give me a figure please.I'd love to see it.If its more because its time consuming,I think I speak for many,we all have the time here and can wait.Members just want whats due to them for every honest trade.How would it be if no one left feedback at all?,afterall,its not required right?? Lets just trade and after all the deals have been sent and confirmed,lets just pm each other and say Thank-You.Its a problem that can be fixed and should be.It has to be considered.
~~Dave C.

**duane1969** · 04-22-2012, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by hawk2618 View Post

Adding 1 step is extensive and costly??....thats a copout sorry.Cmon..How much can it really cost???? Give me a figure please.I'd love to see it.If its more because its time consuming,I think I speak for many,we all have the time here and can wait.Members just want whats due to them for every honest trade.How would it be if no one left feedback at all?,afterall,its not required right?? Lets just trade and after all the deals have been sent and confirmed,lets just pm each other and say Thank-You.Its a problem that can be fixed and should be.It has to be considered.
~~Dave C.

I don't know the exact cost, mostly because that does not fall under the scope of my authority, but I can confirm that it is not as simple as clicking a button or adding a few digits to a line of code. Site code changes are pretty extensive and are a painstaking process (yes, I have done it so I am speaking from experience). Spend a little time teaching yourself how to write HTML code, try building a simple 3-page site that has no glitches or flaws, and then get back to me on how easy it is and how it is a copout.

It is not a problem that has to be fixed. Much like the OP, you are making the mistake of thinking that your problem is the utmost problem for the site to deal with. Most people leave feedback. Going thru an extensive code change to fix a problem that only occasionally occurs is not the top priority, especially since most people who don't leave feedback just forgot and a simple, friendly PM to remind them to leave feedback for you will suffice.