Evidence vs. Faith.

[JustAlex]

bullcrap, you are claiming theists are wrong in believing in God because it cannot be proven by empirical evidence.

No, I'm not doing that....I'll tell you what I'm doing.

I don't believe theists are wrong for believing in god, I believe they don't have a good logical reason to believe in god.

There is a difference.

You can believe in god because it makes you feel good and it brings you comfort, OK, I can accept that.....that type of belief is based on emotions, I'm ok with that.

But when you tell me that you don't have any empirical evidence for god, then I'm going to tell you that there is really no logical reason to believe in god.

If something is has no evidence, then why should I believe?

I'll ask that question to all theists on here.

Tell me (you don't even have to give me evidence) why I should believe in god?

[JustAlex]

That's not what is happening here in this thread. I have not said (nor has anyone in this thread) that there is a God. This is how this thread has gone:

Alex-Religious folk are silly and wrong for believing in God. (I paraphrased there. But, you are making a claim that beliefs of religious folks are not correct.)

Me-I don't agree with your claim that religious folk are silly and wrong for believing in God. You claim that they are wrong, right? Please give me the evidence to that claim.

Alex-They have no evidence that they're right.

Me-I can't prove that they are right, but I'm NOT making the original claim...YOU are, you said that religious folk are silly and wrong for believing there is a god. Please give me the evidence to this claim.

Alex-My evidence to support my claim that religious folk are and wrong is that they don't have evidence to prove they're not silly and not wrong.


By making this thread condemning the beliefs of religious people, you are the one making the claim. Had this thread started with someone saying "There is a God!" then the burden of proof would be on them. However, you made the initial claim that the religious are wrong. Simply stating they don't have evidence that makes them right does not make them wrong.

I can guarantee you that I don't think religious folks are "wrong" or "silly" for believing in god.

I simply don't see any logical reason to believe in god when there is no empirical evidence present.

[dscards]

Well, I'm glad to hear that.

My follow up question would be: how do you define logic?

The dictionary gives everything from:
"the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference"

"Following reasonable and sound judgment"

[JustAlex]

My follow up question would be: how do you define logic?

I don't define logic.....logic has it's own rules and definitions.

Saying that something has zero proof, zero predictability, and zero model of any type of consistency is real....is simply illogical.

[Wickabee]

No, I'm not doing that....I'll tell you what I'm doing.

I don't believe theists are wrong for believing in god, I believe they don't have a good logical reason to believe in god.

There is a difference.

You can believe in god because it makes you feel good and it brings you comfort, OK, I can accept that.....that type of belief is based on emotions, I'm ok with that.

But when you tell me that you don't have any empirical evidence for god, then I'm going to tell you that there is really no logical reason to believe in god.

If something is has no evidence, then why should I believe?

I'll ask that question to all theists on here.

Tell me (you don't even have to give me evidence) why I should believe in god?

You know, all your babbling adds up to one very clear message. You have no idea if there's a God or not and hate people constantly telling you there is. Is that fair?

Can I tell you something? If you hate religion, that's fine. I do too. But you talk about theists constantly. Those are people. We raked you over the coals for it and now you put a token "many" or "most" somewhere in there. We know who you're talking about, anyone who believes.

You do have a problem with people who believe and you are hellbent on telling them they're wrong. Every other day it's another thread about "annoying theists" "dangerous zealots" or just a good old fashioned "why god doesn't exist." Whether you put "many" or not, I know you're talking about me, shrew and anyone else who believes in God. Very few, if ANY, people on these boards act like what you describe, but you're hear telling us we're all ruining the world anyway. You know what? Grow some balls and go tell the people who do act like you talk about. They exist, that's for sure, but you are terrible at finding them.

Are you here because it's safer? You know that you're vilifying people who don't deserve it and, therefore, will have less to fire back with in argument? Are you just scared?

Maybe you've simply lost sight of the things you're saying and what you actually believe. It seems to me to be a very likely outcome when you choose your beliefs regarding God based on politics.

In short, as sick as you are of theists trying to run the country, and I'm sick of that too, we're also sick of you walking in here and telling us we're evil morons for having a belief. Don't hate us because we didn't bring politics into that decision.

[Wickabee]

I don't define logic.....logic has it's own rules and definitions.

Saying that something has zero proof, zero predictability, and zero model of any type of consistency is real....is simply illogical.

Sounds like the level of understanding you've displayed towards the bible.

So, logically, your understanding is non existent.

[dscards]

I don't define logic.....logic has it's own rules and definitions.

Saying that something has zero proof, zero predictability, and zero model of any type of consistency is real....is simply illogical.

I asked what was logical, not what was illogical.

Please expound on the definitions and rules of logic.

[JustAlex]

I asked what was logical, not what was illogical.

Please expound on the definitions and rules of logic.

Logic has three basic laws:

Law of identity: A = A

Law of non contradiction: A can NOT = B

Law of the excluded middle: It is either A or B

The christian god (for example) violates every one of these laws.

[dscards]

Logic has three basic laws:

Law of identity: A = A

Law of non contradiction: A can NOT = B

Law of the excluded middle: It is either A or B

The christian god (for example) violates every one of these laws.

Would you mind explaining how the Christian God defies those letters? Is it only the Christian God or are we simply singling them out for some reason?

[JustAlex]

You do have a problem with people who believe and you are hellbent on telling them they're wrong.

Didn't I just say that I DON'T think theists are "wrong" for believing in god? I clearly said that, right?

I'm not hellbent on proving them wrong at all.

If I'm hellbent on anything is challenging them and getting a clear answer out of theists.

In short, as sick as you are of theists trying to run the country, and I'm sick of that too, we're also sick of you walking in here and telling us we're evil morons for having a belief. Don't hate us because we didn't bring politics into that decision.

Let me know when I have EVER called any theist an "evil moron".....that would be never.