Evidence vs. Faith.

[JustAlex]

The same reason I would have to say you hate your parents. I don't believe you think I'm part of the Christian right. You know I'm Canadian, in fact, which brings the chances of me being Christian right down even further. Yet you talk about "most" theists when every single person here knows you mean all. We literally had to give you crap just to get the token "many" or "most" out of you. And now you want to tell me you don't equate me with the Christian right because I'm a theist? That's crap.

You describe the Christian right then use the word "theists" or "Christians" instead of "Christian right". That alone absolutely proves 1 of 2 things. Either:

You think all theists are like the worst of the worst or
You just don't care who you're actually talking about.

Honestly, my guess would be the latter, and not because you don't care, but because you're too lazy to say what you actually mean. You call yourself an atheist, but describe yourself an agnostic. You know I'm a theist, but descrive theists as conservative Christians. Do you even realize theist does not mean Christian? Because you keep using it as if it does.

These are the things that make you seem whiny, uneducated and younger than is allowed on this site.

OK, I'm only quoting you so that everyone knows why I'm saying the following, however this isn't a respond to you directly....



This comment goes out to anyone who is interested in my beliefs and the way I view things.

#1 A theist is any person that believes in a god(s), and when I use the word theist, NO, I am not automatically talking about christians.

#2 A christian to me is anyone who believes in christ in a religious manner, this includes all denominations of christians, when I speak of christians on this forum however, I usually speak about American Protestants.....many times I try to distinguish them by saying things like evangelical, fundamentalists, or christian extremists.....

#3 Fundamentalists or christian extremists ARE NOT mainline christians and thus I use this terminology in order to NOT get them mixed up with regular non-fundamentalist christians.

#4 I have ZERO problems with christians and theists alike.....however I dislike the whole concept of religion.....the reason I speak of christianity much more than any other religion is because I live in a country where the overwhelming majority is christian, thus I relate to them....and I myself WAS a christian for the majority of my life, thus I know about that particular religion much more than any other.

#5 No, I don't hate any theists or christains, I simply like to challenge and engage in thought provoking discussion.....however, talking about religion is NEVER an easy topic, and disagreements will always occur.

#6 An atheist is a person who doesn't believe in god....that's it....that is literally it. Nothing more or less.

#7 An agnostic is someone who doesn't KNOW whether or not god exists....this has nothing to do with belief, and thus people can be both atheist and agnostic, or even agnostic and theist.

#8 My personal reason why i don't believe in god is due to a lack of evidence, I see no logical reason to believe in any god whatsoever.....

#9 I do NOT believe that theists are dumb or silly or anything of the sort, I disagree with them and I think they are taking a position that doesn't conform with the laws of logic, but that in itself doesn't make them wrong or bad or anything like that.

#10 I DO however believe that religions (not individuals, but the concept) is dangerous to societies and overall they ARE dumb and silly.....having said that, I am NOT one of those atheists that would want to ban religion, because I have a deep admiration for personal freedoms and we should be able to do whatever the hell we feel like and that includes being in a religion if we feel like it.

#11 YES, I do believe some atheists are are just as bad as extremists and I'm talking about the ones that want to ban religion and think violence against theists is justifiable.....those people are idiots and just as bad as fundamentalists and religious extremists.

[shrewsbury]

My personal reason why i don't believe in god is due to a lack of evidence, I see no logical reason to believe in any god whatsoever

alex, we know the universe came from something, there had to be a start, an initiator, a first movement, just like we know there was something that initiated life. We do not know what this is, but we can all have our own hypothesis that is based on different theories, thoughts, evidence, logic, and discussion.

To me this unknown can be and is God.

[JustAlex]

alex, we know the universe came from something, there had to be a start, an initiator, a first movement, just like we know there was something that initiated life. We do not know what this is, but we can all have our own hypothesis that is based on different theories, thoughts, evidence, logic, and discussion.

To me this unknown can be and is God.

Shrew, assigning an unknown to a god(s) is premature....

Take for instance our early human ancestors, they saw lightning and what did they think? It was the wrath of god, god was angry and lightning was his way of showing that anger.

Many naturalistic phenomenons were attributed to god....as time went on we found out that lightning had nothing to do with god, neither was none of the other natural occurrences on this planet.

We have discovered so much and we have so much evidence for a NATURALISTIC universe without the need of a god.....Stephen Hawkings had a bit of a funny joke on this matter:

"What was God doing before the divine creation? Was he preparing hell for people who asked such questions?"

Source: http://www.space.com/20710-stephen-h...-big-bang.html

God is simply unnecessary.

UNLESS.....you want to call Nature god....but why would you do so? Nature doesn't seem to have any conscience.

[gsj68]

I would like to change the pace a little and talk about the odds

If you take all we know about the little speck of the universe we have knowledge of the odds are that somewhere out there is a being so far advanced from ourselves that we would perceive it as a god.

The odds also say that out there is a being so far advanced that the being we perceive as a god would perceive it as a god

round and round,where it stops nobody knows

[Wickabee]

#11 YES, I do believe some atheists are are just as bad as extremists and I'm talking about the ones that want to ban religion and think violence against theists is justifiable.....those people are idiots and just as bad as fundamentalists and religious extremists.

Actions are louder than words. You show exhasperation at having to say that not all Christians or theists are the same, but when I say "many" atheists do something, you jump on me saying it's not true because that's not how you think.

Do you see your hypocrisy yet?

If you truly believed one was as bad as the other, you wouldn't rag on one and passively condone the other. I have trouble even saying passively, as you aggressively defend the obviously religious acts of your atheist brethren. You do the same things as those you vilify, and you can't even see it.

So why should I listen to you?

[shrewsbury]

alex, that is because you have assigned the term God to mean and represent something specific. God being the creator does not have to mean an old white man with a beard and robe doing magic.

and I would ask Hawkins, what was before the big bang and what created it and where did it come from?

[duane1969]

HEY EVERYONE....do you believe in leprechauns?

NO?

OH, you have just the same amount of the "Burden of proof" as does the person saying he believes in leprechauns.

Seriously, how the hell can you guys think this makes sense?

Do you have proof that God doesn't exist? No. What is your point? You are debating the authenticity of opinion.

[habsheaven]

alex, that is because you have assigned the term God to mean and represent something specific. God being the creator does not have to mean an old white man with a beard and robe doing magic.

and I would ask Hawkins, what was before the big bang and what created it and where did it come from?

Jay, you should read Hawkin's book "The Grand Design". It may provide you with a different perspective to entertain.

[Wickabee]

Jay, you should read Hawkin's book "The Grand Design". It may provide you with a different perspective to entertain.

Does he say God has to be an old white magic man in the sky?

[shrewsbury]

habs, is this where he goes into detail about the "m-theory"?

if so, I may still read it, but it is a classic, everything came from nothing, but on a larger scale. You cannot get anything from nothing so I find a flaw with it. I have issues with spontaneous creation and if it did exist, perhaps that is how god came about.

when we look at the works of newton, einstein, and even early hawkins, they could not rule out a supreme being nor attempted to.

I believe newton said science can only explain how they work, not where they came from.