Hobby Lobby Wins!

[Wickabee]

You know we wouldn't have this or many other of society's ills if conservative christanity was outlawed.

But then the final prophecy of the bible would be fulfilled and they'd be proven right.

Catch 22.

[mrveggieman]

But then the final prophecy of the bible would be fulfilled and they'd be proven right.

Catch 22.

Not christanity as a whole just being a christian and a jerk about it.

[Wickabee]

Not christanity as a whole just being a christian and a jerk about it.

So you wouldnt ban the religion, but you would ban the people who make it up?

That's like allowing prostitution, but making solicitation illegal. It makes zero sense.

[tpeichel]

No, they're just blocking you at the pharmacy and making medical decisions for their employees. Nothing wrong with that. If I give you a minimum wage job, will you let me dictate you medication?

You know what's hypocritical about conservatives? You don't want the government making these decisions for you because it would be tyrannical. A business on the other hand isn't, despite the fact people depend on their jobs to live and with the state of the economy, are basically at the whim of the employer in most cases. They ARE deciding that any of their employees who can't afford this medication can't have this medication. They are making medical decisions for employees, and you're okay with it.

What a lame argument. It's such an obvious difference. On one hand you a government dictating what every single company with over 50 people must provide as a healthcare benefit. On the other hand, you have individual companies deciding what kind of healthcare benefit they want to offer employees. If any employee is not happy with a benefit provided by the company, they simply go find a better situation. If paying out of pocket to get something not provided as a company benefit is still the best situation for you, then you stay at the company. If you have better options, you move.

This is a problem caused by government dictating regulations, not religious beliefs.

[maccards44]

If paying out of pocket to get something not provided as a company benefit is still the best situation for you, then you stay at the company.

Snooze, been there... Nobody actually answered last time so I'll ask you:
Does the man with erectile dysfunction pay out of pocket? The dude who wants a vasectomy? He's paying out of pocket right?
Again a list of stuff the Supreme Court says needs to be covered and NOT paid for out pocket:

AIDS retroviral drugs
antibiotics to treat the infection you got from the nasty needle from when you got a 'I LOVE SATAN' tattoo
Blood Transfusions
Vaccines
Herpes Drugs to treat whatcha got raw dogging a stranger at the weekly satanist meeting

But yet... the girl with the menstruation so heavy she'd be anemic without the pill because of the monthly blood loss... and the woman who suffers from that weird disease that can kill you if you get pregnant... and the teen whose dad is a middle manager and has to deal with the pain of endometriosis... THEY can all just "pay out of pocket" Because their boss knows (KNOWS!) that the little baby Jesus cries every time a woman takes a combination of estrogen and progestin in pill form...or somesuch superstitious nonsense.

Explain to me how YOU think that is fair tpeichel.

Oh and all you guys chiming in that "it's only plan-B, it's only the abortion drugs," (facepalm, the medical community says there's no such thing) the supreme court clarified the next day to say this ruling was in reference to ALL contraception. Hobby Lobby WAS actually only fighting about plan-b, morning after pill, etc... But the wonderful dudes on the court decided that wasn't broad enough and clarified it's all the dirty girl pills, not just the most controversial ones.

[tutall]

Snooze, been there... Nobody actually answered last time so I'll ask you:
Does the man with erectile dysfunction pay out of pocket? The dude who wants a vasectomy? He's paying out of pocket right?
Again a list of stuff the Supreme Court says needs to be covered and NOT paid for out pocket:

AIDS retroviral drugs
antibiotics to treat the infection you got from the nasty needle from when you got a 'I LOVE SATAN' tattoo
Blood Transfusions
Vaccines
Herpes Drugs to treat whatcha got raw dogging a stranger at the weekly satanist meeting

But yet... the girl with the menstruation so heavy she'd be anemic without the pill because of the monthly blood loss... and the woman who suffers from that weird disease that can kill you if you get pregnant... and the teen whose dad is a middle manager and has to deal with the pain of endometriosis... THEY can all just "pay out of pocket" Because their boss knows (KNOWS!) that the little baby Jesus cries every time a woman takes a combination of estrogen and progestin in pill form...or somesuch superstitious nonsense.

Explain to me how YOU think that is fair tpeichel.

Oh and all you guys chiming in that "it's only plan-B, it's only the abortion drugs," (facepalm, the medical community says there's no such thing) the supreme court clarified the next day to say this ruling was in reference to ALL contraception. Hobby Lobby WAS actually only fighting about plan-b, morning after pill, etc... But the wonderful dudes on the court decided that wasn't broad enough and clarified it's all the dirty girl pills, not just the most controversial ones.

I agree with you but those items you listed are not in the lawsuit. If you sue to not cover blood transfusions based on religious beliefs and can prove they are against your beliefs I have no problem with them not being covered. I think in the long run it could hurt your business as you are eliminating a percentage of the talent based on your belief system but in my opinion it is not the job of the government to mandate what benefits you are required to give employees. Honestly I don't even think this is really a religious issue. I think a company should be able to provide whatever they want to employees and if the person doesn't like it take a hike.

My insurance sucks through work. I have paid more out of pocket in the last 2 years than the previous 26 years combined. You just have to find a best way to deal with it and go forward. If i didn't make enough to cover those expenses I would look for a better job with better insurance or better pay.

[Wickabee]

So conservatives believe the religion of their employers should determine what medicine you get.

You believe your medication should be determined by your employer, not you.

You really do want business as your government AND doctors. Wow.

[tpeichel]

Snooze, been there... Nobody actually answered last time so I'll ask you:
Does the man with erectile dysfunction pay out of pocket? The dude who wants a vasectomy? He's paying out of pocket right?
Again a list of stuff the Supreme Court says needs to be covered and NOT paid for out pocket:

AIDS retroviral drugs
antibiotics to treat the infection you got from the nasty needle from when you got a 'I LOVE SATAN' tattoo
Blood Transfusions
Vaccines
Herpes Drugs to treat whatcha got raw dogging a stranger at the weekly satanist meeting

But yet... the girl with the menstruation so heavy she'd be anemic without the pill because of the monthly blood loss... and the woman who suffers from that weird disease that can kill you if you get pregnant... and the teen whose dad is a middle manager and has to deal with the pain of endometriosis... THEY can all just "pay out of pocket" Because their boss knows (KNOWS!) that the little baby Jesus cries every time a woman takes a combination of estrogen and progestin in pill form...or somesuch superstitious nonsense.

Explain to me how YOU think that is fair tpeichel.

Oh and all you guys chiming in that "it's only plan-B, it's only the abortion drugs," (facepalm, the medical community says there's no such thing) the supreme court clarified the next day to say this ruling was in reference to ALL contraception. Hobby Lobby WAS actually only fighting about plan-b, morning after pill, etc... But the wonderful dudes on the court decided that wasn't broad enough and clarified it's all the dirty girl pills, not just the most controversial ones.

I have been against the government mandating ANY of this. If I had my choice, individuals would pay out of pocket for everything and only have an insurance plan for catastrophic care. Healthcare costs would drop dramatically and would follow the price trajectory of LASIK surgery.

This problem was created by the government mandates, end of story.

[tpeichel]

So conservatives believe the religion of their employers should determine what medicine you get.

You believe your medication should be determined by your employer, not you.

You really do want business as your government AND doctors. Wow.

Funny. Your government is your doctor. Your government decides when you get care and what kind it is. Individuals should be in charge of their healthcare. They are attempting to take that away in the U.S. and by attempting to create an equalitarian system they violated religious liberties.

[maccards44]

If I had my choice, individuals would pay out of pocket for everything and only have an insurance plan for catastrophic care.

So you'd just get rid of health insurance as we know it, including all the people who really like the plan they paid for. Sounds like a health care dictatorship. Fantastic!
You aren't even debating the issue. To use an analogy we are all talking about what we like/don't like about certain models of pickup trucks and you are coming in saying, "where are the flying cars? I don't want a car until they can fly!"