The education system thread

[WilyWestbrook0]

I am honestly sick of teachers saying they dont make enough money. In northeastern Indiana there is a district that just voted on a new package that increases starting salary nearly 3 percent and will give a 5.5 percent raise for all non-administrative staff for the next 3 years. I wish i could get a 5,.5 percent raise in these times. The average teacher in this area easily makes 40K for teaching half the year. The teacher in Indiana with working a couple days before and after the school year will work about 190 days. I will work roughly 250 days this year. If you take the 40K and put it into the regular workers schedule that is basically making around 50K per year which in this area is pretty good. Teachers also get a ton of breaks, half days, plus extra pay for coaching, summer school, etc... I understand these people are teaching the kids but there are other jobs that are just as important that pay far less.

I have to agree with this. I always hear that teachers, nurses, and police officers are underpaid, but of those professions, I think only police officers are the ones who are truly underpaid - they have to be ready to put their lives on the line at any given moment. Teaching and nursing are very important professions, but I think they are given their due salaries in the vast majority of cases.

As far as the books in school, it is ridiculous. Thats one of the reasons college became so expensive for me. I went to a small community college for 2 years and the books were honestly as expensive as the courses. I started at a small private school and the books there were running 6-800 per semester. You sell them back to the bookstore and get maybe 150 back.

Yes, I think books cost too much at all levels of education. There are always new books replacing the "old" kinds even though they are still completely fine, and don't really need any so-called "enhancements" after three years of use.

Preparing kids for the real world is easy. I would make it mandatory to put kids in working situations. be it on campus or off. Kids need to work even if it is at the local retail chain or fast food joint. I have worked with no breaks ever since i was 16 years old and i think i am a harder worker now and am where i am in my life because of it. It makes me sick when "kids" 20 years old and still have mommy and daddy making deposits into their account for the simple reason they are too lazy to get a job. If schools instituted some kind of program like an ICE or Work Study program that was mandatory i think society would be much better off. They also need to teach kids how to get jobs. I see WAY too many kids walk into a job interview in jeans and a polo. In high school we had a 9 week class that tought us how to make a resume, fill out an application, how to dress for the interview. I have never had an interview where i didnt get the job and i attribute that to that class and Mr. Finken.

While this is true for many, please understand that not everyone who is currently unemployed beyond the age of 20 is always lazy or dresses poorly. My resume has been looked over and approved by people who have written resumes before with success, I always dress appropriately for interviews and conduct myself in a professional manner, and I have shown myself to do well in an academic setting (3.75 GPA college graduate) - which should at least account for a degree of self-discipline, a trait that businesses should want in a worker. However, though I have been searching since June of 2008, I am still unemployed in spite of sending out numerous applications and resumes. I've been told they don't want me for their $7/hour entry level clerical and retail jobs because I haven't been shown how to conduct a mail merge in Microsoft Excel, or because "I have no prior retail experience."

Interestingly enough, in my mom's day (she is 67 now), she was one of the few women working in upper level management business, and she was always glad to take on willing and capable new workers, even if they didn't have "experience." She could tell who would work out and who didn't regardless of experience by assessing their attitudes. The time given to train me would not take that long, but they are no longer willing to do it like they were in my mom's day.

I will simply have to keep waiting and applying for more jobs until someone can look past my lack of experience and take the time with an entry level worker.

As far as home schooling goes, I dont agree with it. My brother went to a small christian school and really has very little social skills. He had about 8 kids in his class and never knew how to interact with a large group. The school shut down and he had to go into the public school system and he is now behind in a lot. His grades are fine but his social communication is lacking to say the least. I can only imagine how someone who is not around many kids his/her age on a regular basis can become involved in society with no problem. I think it is better for a trained/licensed teacher to teach and le the kids get picjed on and a couple black eyes. It gets them more ready for the world the being overly protected at home. I think kids need to see more than what can be offered at home/church

This is the other notion - that people are only home-schooled for "religious reasons," which I proved was otherwise in my initial post. My Kindergarten school teacher actually recommended it to me and my family because they did not know how to deal with a student who was two grades above everyone else in Kindergarten regarding reading ability. They tried putting me in an accelerated reading class that year, but I was still finishing far above the other students, and "embarrassing" them, they thought.

As far as social skill - the other common argument against home-schooling - I fail to see how school is apparently the only legitimate form of socialization for children. Are there not athletics programs, day camps, and the like? Is humankind somehow genetically programmed and required to sit inside a classroom every day in order to develop the social skills deemed necessary by the masses? School is but one small part of socialization, and there are many others which are more than adequate enough to make up for that traditional institution. I may not be as extroverted as many people, but I am apparently very popular here according to the polls on the Chit Chat forum, and I couldn't have achieved that by being socially inept.

[tutall]

While this is true for many, please understand that not everyone who is currently unemployed beyond the age of 20 is always lazy or dresses poorly. My resume has been looked over and approved by people who have written resumes before with success, I always dress appropriately for interviews and conduct myself in a professional manner, and I have shown myself to do well in an academic setting (3.75 GPA college graduate) - which should at least account for a degree of self-discipline, a trait that businesses should want in a worker. However, though I have been searching since June of 2008, I am still unemployed in spite of sending out numerous applications and resumes. I've been told they don't want me for their $7/hour entry level clerical and retail jobs because I haven't been shown how to conduct a mail merge in Microsoft Excel, or because "I have no prior retail experience."

Interestingly enough, in my mom's day (she is 67 now), she was one of the few women working in upper level management business, and she was always glad to take on willing and capable new workers, even if they didn't have "experience." She could tell who would work out and who didn't regardless of experience by assessing their attitudes. The time given to train me would not take that long, but they are no longer willing to do it like they were in my mom's day.

I will simply have to keep waiting and applying for more jobs until someone can look past my lack of experience and take the time with an entry level worker.

I am by no means saying everyone in that age bracket who is unemployed is lazy or anything else like that. What is irritating however is seeing someone my age (23) who is on SSI, moms constant transfers, and gets EBT simply because instead of doing something productive they have decided to have babies and no work. I do think however schools could do much better in getting applicants ready for an interview. Like i said... If someone wants a professional job first impression matters. If someone comes into the bank for an application and they dont at least have a tie on good luck on ever getting an interview.

This is the other notion - that people are only home-schooled for "religious reasons," which I proved was otherwise in my initial post. My Kindergarten school teacher actually recommended it to me and my family because they did not know how to deal with a student who was two grades above everyone else in Kindergarten regarding reading ability. They tried putting me in an accelerated reading class that year, but I was still finishing far above the other students, and "embarrassing" them, they thought.

As far as social skill - the other common argument against home-schooling - I fail to see how school is apparently the only legitimate form of socialization for children. Are there not athletics programs, day camps, and the like? Is humankind somehow genetically programmed and required to sit inside a classroom every day in order to develop the social skills deemed necessary by the masses? School is but one small part of socialization, and there are many others which are more than adequate enough to make up for that traditional institution. I may not be as extroverted as many people, but I am apparently very popular here according to the polls on the Chit Chat forum, and I couldn't have achieved that by being socially inept.

Im sure you are correct that some kids are better off being homeschooled but i would argue that many of these kids are missing something they cannot get while growing up in this life. The kids who participate in activities you mention are probably fine but i know of at least 2 cases in the bank i work where the kids are terrified to come out of the house. They have been brought up to think the world is evil and are home schooled to be sheltered from that. How are these same kids going to grow up and get a job in the real world away from their house? I think the social skills learned in grade school make a person who they are when they grow up. I for one got along with everyone in school and i think that contributes to me being able to talk to anyone i come in contact with easily. My wife however was and is very introverted also. She would rather stay home and watch movies while i would rather be at the bar hanging out with friends watching the game. Its fine either way but in our case i have found it much easier to interact with people who can get me the job i want to have. She struggles in interviews and while talking to management while i can go to the local pub and have a beer with my manager no problem. Again, it isnt really an issue until it becomes one. And i think growing up around other kids taking your beatings really helps in the long run

[ashley832]

Yes, I think books cost too much at all levels of education. There are always new books replacing the "old" kinds even though they are still completely fine, and don't really need any so-called "enhancements" after three years of use.


While this is true for many, please understand that not everyone who is currently unemployed beyond the age of 20 is always lazy or dresses poorly. My resume has been looked over and approved by people who have written resumes before with success, I always dress appropriately for interviews and conduct myself in a professional manner, and I have shown myself to do well in an academic setting (3.75 GPA college graduate) - which should at least account for a degree of self-discipline, a trait that businesses should want in a worker. However, though I have been searching since June of 2008, I am still unemployed in spite of sending out numerous applications and resumes. I've been told they don't want me for their $7/hour entry level clerical and retail jobs because I haven't been shown how to conduct a mail merge in Microsoft Excel, or because "I have no prior retail experience."

Book are expensive! Most of the books I had to had for this semester were about $135 each USED. I've been buying them online for A LOT cheaper. As for the books in high/middle school sometimes they do need new ones...even if they dont change much. I know some of our books were really bad..full of writing, falling apart, etc. But to have a brand new book thats completely different than the previous one used is stupid. They just change a chapter or two but dont really add any new information..maybe reword it or something.

I'm not really sure what colleges could do to get students ready for actual real world things. Every since my first day I have been told that joining groups and networking needs to be done to get a job.

And I agree about teachers. Some of them should not be teaching! A lot of them just want a pay check and doesnt really care about the students. Theres been several that I havent learned anything from..one being my management teacher now.


Ashley

[themanishere]

- I'm 20, in college, and don't work - and I don't really want to at this time. My course load is heavy enough as is from semester to semester, and to add a job on top of that would compromise the quality of my academic performance. Instead, I am currently part of research projects in my field - they are less time- and labor-intensive, but still give an idea of the real-world experience.

- But I am of the opinion that I don't care much for the academic aspect of education and information. I wish courses simply would not dump information on us, but tell us how it is used in the real world. Maybe coordinated internship or research courses would work well in this sense. After all of these years of regurgitating information, I am tired of being force-fed fluffed up BS only to not use most of it later on. I want to know what I can do with it in the field and on the job, not just in the classroom. I just don't want educational institutions to continue "shielding" people from being exposed to the real world until a year or two before people start working full-time.

- Books are ridiculous. However, I have been able to trade books with friends in my major, so it kind of offsets the cost in a sense. What really pisses me off is professors who make you buy huge readers (which can cost upwards of $40) - they can't be sold back at any store here, as they change from semester to semester...

- I don't think the whole "schooling as a shaping force" is as true as people make it to be. Research has shown a person's personality is almost completely solidified by the age of 6 - hardly enough time for schooling to make such a comprehensive impact. Schooling, in this discussion, is primarily a mechanism of manifesting personality in social situations, not one of constructing a person's inner social dispositions.

[WilyWestbrook0]

I am by no means saying everyone in that age bracket who is unemployed is lazy or anything else like that. What is irritating however is seeing someone my age (23) who is on SSI, moms constant transfers, and gets EBT simply because instead of doing something productive they have decided to have babies and no work. I do think however schools could do much better in getting applicants ready for an interview. Like i said... If someone wants a professional job first impression matters. If someone comes into the bank for an application and they dont at least have a tie on good luck on ever getting an interview.

Thanks for clarifying..I definitely agree it's irritating when people take advantage of any kind of system without even trying to find work. It's frustrating both for people like you who are putting effort into their jobs and people like me who want one but just haven't had any luck.

Im sure you are correct that some kids are better off being homeschooled but i would argue that many of these kids are missing something they cannot get while growing up in this life. The kids who participate in activities you mention are probably fine but i know of at least 2 cases in the bank i work where the kids are terrified to come out of the house. They have been brought up to think the world is evil and are home schooled to be sheltered from that. How are these same kids going to grow up and get a job in the real world away from their house?

Well, that situation is really unfortunate. No one can be sheltered from the world these days - we are too technologically advanced and globally interdependent for that to work. There are certainly those out there who are home-schooled for the wrong reasons..I just think it should be an option for other situations where public school isn't the best fit. Public school itself has its problems, as has been outlined in prior posts, but I'm only in favor of reforming it to an extent, not eliminating it as an option. I still think home-schooling worked fine for me, but I wouldn't recommend it for every person, and certainly not in cases where people think that isolating themselves from the outside world will somehow be beneficial.

[WilyWestbrook0]

ash - Agreed on all counts!

theman - I also did not work during college for the same reason, although I wish I had gone back and tried if only to get the chance at the experience all employers want to see these days. The research projects sound like they could be useful to add to a resume, though, so that sounds good - although it depends on the kind of research it is. The research projects I always did in English, sans the professional/technical writing courses, were always strictly academic and have no real application to any non-academic jobs of which I am aware.

[jlzinck]

ANy time "government" runs anything it low end efficient.

Place the word government in from of anything and you will see that.

Are teachers underpaid? In some cases yes and some no. The problem with the teachers is the unions. They drive costs through the roofs and yet sped a LOT of dues money on political causes to get more money thrown to them.

You tell me if my town spends enough on education.

We have a regional school system. Between the 2 towns, based on 2000 census there are 41000 people.

We have an overpopulation in senior citizens so the school population is lower.

in 2009 there are 3300 kids in the school system and the budget ois 15 $50,000,000.

$50,000,000 to educate 3300 children. Tell me again we need to spend MORE on education.

The teachers are getting a 3.5% payraise this year also.

How about we spend BETTER/Wiser on eduacation

[Star_Cards]

I am honestly sick of teachers saying they dont make enough money. In northeastern Indiana there is a district that just voted on a new package that increases starting salary nearly 3 percent and will give a 5.5 percent raise for all non-administrative staff for the next 3 years. I wish i could get a 5,.5 percent raise in these times. The average teacher in this area easily makes 40K for teaching half the year. The teacher in Indiana with working a couple days before and after the school year will work about 190 days. I will work roughly 250 days this year. If you take the 40K and put it into the regular workers schedule that is basically making around 50K per year which in this area is pretty good. Teachers also get a ton of breaks, half days, plus extra pay for coaching, summer school, etc... I understand these people are teaching the kids but there are other jobs that are just as important that pay far less.

I agree. I don't have exact stats of salaries for teachers, but for me the lower amount of days that they work has to be added into the equation. When you get 3-4 months a year off you can easily pick up other work.

I believe it to a an important profession as well as a nobel one, but when you have so much time off it's hard for me to be on your side when you ask for more money. For the most part, everyone thinks they are under paid.

I think teachers wanting more money has just become this cause to fight for. I have a friend that desperately looked for a teaching job for 2-3 years. Then, once she got one, she instantly started saying how she deserved more pay.

[themanishere]

I think for many teachers, they are paid relatively fairly. However, in community colleges especially (and maybe the state system, I don't know there), the pay is really not in line with the amount of work they get.

My brother is a teacher at community college. The amount of papers and work he has to grade is ridiculous - I would know since the family helps him out on the weekends - we grade for some 5-6 hours and still don't finish. He gets less than 30K/year and works year round (Spring-Summer-Fall semesters) - but he's starting out so it should get better.

The system in that sense fails - it gives teachers too many students and too much work to be done. Of course in private schools it is different, but the resource management of most public schools is terrible.

[tyude2]

I don't like the idea of Home-Schooling because kids need to socialize with others, since many jobs have you working with other people, it's good to have great communication skills, sometimes they can be essential to one's career, but some kids may not like public schools, they might get made fun of, but they shouldn't be that mad unless they get hurt physically, which many people don't, they just need to avoid and ignore the verbal actions others take against them and get over it because in the long run, the one's making fun of the kids will probably not be successful in life, but the one being made fun of, probably will.

Now if Home-Schooling is requested upon a religous need, that's fine with me. This is all just my opinion.