ebay - again

[Fred Bear]

"Take a Neg deny the Knob"

"Im scared for a society where someone makes a mistake and instead of owning up to it and taking care of it like a man, they complain and cry until they get their way while blaming other things for their own mistake."

I like the society where you tell the buyer politely you made a mistake. If they continue bantering because they are just plain ignorant just tell them to hit the road. Be a man (woman) and tell them to shove it. Too many people run to the lawyers office now because they are socially inept. Just kick them to the curb.

Please tell me that you are joking and that you see the irony/conflict between the quote and your comments... How would telling someone that you refuse to honor an obligation (a sale) be 'owning' up to anything?

When you list something for sale, be it here on this forum, on eBay, or even at a card show, you have represented yourself as a business (cash transaction) and there are responsibilities that come with that representation. If you are unwilling to accept or acknowledge those responsibilities, either (a) don't sell stuff or (b) deal with the consequences.

It's fine to make mistakes, but how you deal with them defines you as a person (i.e. those are your morals). The anonymity of the internet doesn't absolve anyone of taking responsibility for their own actions.

The bottom line is on the transaction described by the OP -- A seller sold a card at the listed BIN price. A seller not honoring the sale is no different than a buyer not paying for an item or a seller choosing not to ship an item (both common complaints amongst forum posters). I can surely empathize with you for making an error and I'm glad that you were able to work something out with your buyer, but I could never agree that a buyer is immoral or wrong for buying something that might be priced wrong.

[TheIronHorse4]

I'm going to agree with the OP, I sell lots and lots on ebay and have never had this happened where I put the wrong price, but I would like to think that someone would acknowledge that if it was CLEARLY a mistake, they wouldn't hold me to it.

What the one poster was talking about where he saw/bought a car for $1,000 even though with a little work it could be worth $5,000 is not remotely the same thing. This is a person who wanted to get rid of the car and didn't care to put the work in or was in desperate need of the $1,000 right away. That's just jumping on a good deal. The seller is aware of the price, which is a key factor, and doesn't mind to let it go, even at a loss.

Also the Wal-Mart example hardly applies either. Comparing a company like Wal-Mart, which by itself would make it the 23rd (or so) largest country (if it were one obviously)in the world based on GDP, to a small time ebay seller is ridiculous. Of course they can take a loss of $40 on a microwave when they bring in billions anyways. The bad publicity/word of mouth they would get would be far more costly than whatever the mispriced item is. That ebay seller losing out on that $40 might be a utility payment that doesn't get paid, who knows, but has far more impact on their bottom line.

I'm not totally bashing the buyer in this situation for thinking they should go through with the sale, because TECHNICALLY it is the buyers right at that point because they entered in to a legal contract for the card in question. I know that I would have a hard time sleeping at night if it were me though. What goes around comes around, and just because you can take advantage of something/someone, doesn't mean you should.

[razzamaztaz]

Thank you Ironhorse, at last. That's what I wanted to say too, to compare with the car sale is ridicoulous, so is comparing with a megabig company. They cover their losses. And as for the car, I just sold a big lot of hockeycards to someone, like around 1200 cards lowends. I know I made a loss compared to if I'd sold them as small lots of 20 cards each, probably would have gotten 2-3 times as much as I get now, but it saves me time and work so I I sell it in one go. Just like the guy with a car probably wanted a quick sale. I'm completely aware of what I'm doing.

Anyway, people, keep in mind I'm not arguing the law, the contract or who's technically right. And forget about my specific case now, I wrote from the start I know it's my mistake. Anyone's situation now: I'm speaking of the moral, don't hide behind that the law is on your side to take advantage of people, you're simply not a nice person if you try and push through with the sale even if the sller begs you not to. I've spoked tonight (cause I find this an interesting moral dilemma) with around 20 different people including a professor in ethics I mow: and I'm right, it's not morally right to take advantage. Period. Of course it's legally right so go ahead and do it, but that's only trying to hide behind that to feel better.

[Krazykanuk]

All i can say is i am happy there are still good people. You made a mistake and i am happy you were able to resolve it.

If it is a small dollar item then it is best to suck it up and take the hit. If it is a big dollar item and you made a mistake then asking the buyer to be understanding to your mistake IMO is respectable.

It is always interesting to get everybody else's opinions on these matters, that is why this forum is so entertaining.

[Lamplitersniper]

Morals arent exactly set in stone. So to say that because you spoke with an Ethics professor, which by the way means absolutely nothing, and he said its morally wrong "period". Doesnt mean its morally wrong.

[razzamaztaz]

Well, there is actually ethic and moral "laws", you can have a debate and by ethical laws it can be determined whether one choice is morally correct or not (sometimes its a greyzone of course). So yes, you can. You can't actually say "this is my personal moral so you're wrong". I should add this might and will differ between countries and culturals of course. Sweden and USA shouldn't be so different but perhaps it is.

[Fred Bear]

Anyway, people, keep in mind I'm not arguing the law, the contract or who's technically right. And forget about my specific case now, I wrote from the start I know it's my mistake. Anyone's situation now: I'm speaking of the moral, don't hide behind that the law is on your side to take advantage of people, you're simply not a nice person if you try and push through with the sale even if the sller begs you not to. I've spoked tonight (cause I find this an interesting moral dilemma) with around 20 different people including a professor in ethics I mow: and I'm right, it's not morally right to take advantage. Period. Of course it's legally right so go ahead and do it, but that's only trying to hide behind that to feel better.

You have to see that in the abstract, there is, by definition, no debatable question... In the abstract, you are trying to ask, 'is it morally ok to take advantage of someone?' The answer is obviously, 'of course it's not okay'. But that's not the specific situation you posted about.

Your original post asked the question, 'is it ok for me to be upset that a buyer/consumer expects me to honor a contract I, a business/seller, made in error?' To me, those are two very, very different questions and the second one has nothing to do with ethics or morals - since it is specifically covered by the 'law' (isn't it generally considered immoral to do things which are 'against' the law).

While you try to relate the two questions and use words like 'obvious' to describe your mistake, you are speaking only from your perspective. As a buyer, how do I know you aren't trying to make a quick sale with a low priced item (like the car example)? As a buyer, how do I know you aren't a huge card shop just starting out on eBay and drawing in customers with lower-than-normal prices (like a Walmart might do)? You have to add specific information and 'personalize' the situation to clarify. 'The buyer knew you weren't trying to make a quick sale because you told him you made a mistake pricing the item,' would likely be the answer based on this thread. Your question now is, 'even though I've told the buyer that I made a mistake is it moral for him to proceed with the transaction?'

I think a better question is - How moral is it to shift responsibility for a seller's mistake to the buyer? [Interesting side note, but many of the laws governing selling exist to specifically prevent this question from being asked.]

We could just as easily go down the road that if it's really ok to not honor a contract because you make a 'mistake', what constitutes a 'mistake'? Is a $10 BIN on a $13 card a mistake or a deal? Are 'mistakes' only over $20? $50? or $100? Where do we draw the line? Does it work the other way? Is buying a $50 BIN on a $40 card a mistake that a buyer can cancel? Do I need to return cards I bought at yard sales where somebody's mom sold their cards 'by mistake' after they went away to college (more importantly, can I get mine back?!?!?)?

In the real world, nothing is black and white and you, ultimately, get what you negotiate. To me, what you did was 100% acceptable. You explained your mistake to the buyer and you worked something out which you both accepted. I tend to agree with some of the others here, though, that the true 'moral high ground' would've been to honor the sale and eat the loss.

[Blargh]

If the buyer tried to push it through, that buyer is a jerk. A jerk that is completely and totally justified with pushing the sale through.
A seller who refuses to sell at that price is a jerk. It's the seller's responsibility to review their auction listings before posting. If you're tired, wait until you're refreshed before entering your auctions.
If I was you, I'd offer to send a little thank you package to this particular buyer who let you off the hook.

[razzamaztaz]

Forget what this post started with, I think we all know we're a bit beyond the first issue right? This is about a moral choice regarding taking advantage of any person making such obviois mistake.

Now this statement:

"As a buyer, how do I know you aren't trying to make a quick sale with a low priced item (like the car example)"?

Common sense. Actually a real law on that, here anyway since a few years back. If for example you have a new computer, Dell, IBM, whatever, and its new and its for sale on auction for a third of the retail price the police say its common sense to know and understand it stolen. And if you buy it and turns out to be stolen, you're going down. Actually was a real big case on it just a few months ago here.

Now that is regarding stolen property, but I would say its common sense to understand an item listed 20-40 times cheaper than normal is not a "quick sale". This doesn't concern a $10 card that should sell for 40, happens all the time, bidwars, lack of bidwars, wrong title, wrong timing etc. This is a huge huge difference in price between 5 bucks and 100-200 bucks. So stop nitpicking. No. The real morla choice is not the eat the loss and "be a man". That's the real legal choice, but not the moral one. And I'm not defending myself, I've had plenty of opportunities to make similar claims and bargains myself on seller mistakes, but I would never do them, ever.

As for moral, not long ago I made a trade, the trade wasn't set in stone yet so it had broken no forum rules to abort it. But we still had agreen by word so to say. Suddenly I get another offer from someone else, an offer that is several hundred dollars more. A greedy part of my brain says "wow, screw the other guy", but my heart says no, honor what you have said. So I did. And missed those 400$+. That has happened to me several times with varying numbers. Judging from what many say here you wouldn't have made the same choice.

[Fred Bear]

Now this statement:

"As a buyer, how do I know you aren't trying to make a quick sale with a low priced item (like the car example)"?

Common sense.

So... I can't bid $10 on an auction for a PSA 10 Crosby SP Authentic RC which is listed to start at $0.99 because it should sell for $600+? What about making low-ball offers on BIN/BO? Is it immoral to ask for a high price?

I'm sorry, but I think you're missing my point. You don't go to eBay because you want to pay full retail, you go there to find a deal. Buyers aren't responsible for pricing the items listed there and I refuse to believe that there is anything immoral about finding and getting a deal, mistake or not. I also don't think that common sense has anything to do with it when you are talking about a website dedicated to auction selling. [Also note that eBay states the seller assumes all responsibility for the listing.] [Please also note that comparing a sports card sale to trafficking stolen goods by moral comparison is not quite apples-to-apples.]

This doesn't concern a $10 card that should sell for 40, happens all the time, bidwars, lack of bidwars, wrong title, wrong timing etc. This is a huge huge difference in price between 5 bucks and 100-200 bucks. So stop nitpicking. No. The real morla choice is not the eat the loss and "be a man". That's the real legal choice, but not the moral one. And I'm not defending myself, I've had plenty of opportunities to make similar claims and bargains myself on seller mistakes, but I would never do them, ever.

Please understand that I'm not suggesting you are immoral by any means, but you are defending yourself. The amount of money shouldn't change the morality of the situation at all. I've seen $600-1000 cases of cards sell for $200-400. In fact, the LCS owner here died last week and his shop inventory is going to go to a local auction where it will sell for substantially lower than the actual market value - will that make the buyer immoral? I don't think so.

You made a mistake. You worked it out with the buyer. That's what needed to happen. How can you make any moral judgement of a buyer because he expected a sale to be made when he hit the BIN?

I think, though, that we've reached the 'agree to disagree' point. I don't find expecting someone to honor a sale immoral.

[On a personal note, I've been on both sides and I've always honored my offers. I've bought duplicate cards for higher prices because I said I would. I've sold cards for less than other offers because I said I would. I'm also understanding of 'mistakes' and have cancelled transactions on eBay going both directions - it happens. Moral, legal, and reasonable aren't always mutually exclusive.]