ebay - again

[Lamplitersniper]

You have to see that in the abstract, there is, by definition, no debatable question... In the abstract, you are trying to ask, 'is it morally ok to take advantage of someone?' The answer is obviously, 'of course it's not okay'. But that's not the specific situation you posted about.

Your original post asked the question, 'is it ok for me to be upset that a buyer/consumer expects me to honor a contract I, a business/seller, made in error?' To me, those are two very, very different questions and the second one has nothing to do with ethics or morals - since it is specifically covered by the 'law' (isn't it generally considered immoral to do things which are 'against' the law).

While you try to relate the two questions and use words like 'obvious' to describe your mistake, you are speaking only from your perspective. As a buyer, how do I know you aren't trying to make a quick sale with a low priced item (like the car example)? As a buyer, how do I know you aren't a huge card shop just starting out on eBay and drawing in customers with lower-than-normal prices (like a Walmart might do)? You have to add specific information and 'personalize' the situation to clarify. 'The buyer knew you weren't trying to make a quick sale because you told him you made a mistake pricing the item,' would likely be the answer based on this thread. Your question now is, 'even though I've told the buyer that I made a mistake is it moral for him to proceed with the transaction?'

I think a better question is - How moral is it to shift responsibility for a seller's mistake to the buyer? [Interesting side note, but many of the laws governing selling exist to specifically prevent this question from being asked.]

We could just as easily go down the road that if it's really ok to not honor a contract because you make a 'mistake', what constitutes a 'mistake'? Is a $10 BIN on a $13 card a mistake or a deal? Are 'mistakes' only over $20? $50? or $100? Where do we draw the line? Does it work the other way? Is buying a $50 BIN on a $40 card a mistake that a buyer can cancel? Do I need to return cards I bought at yard sales where somebody's mom sold their cards 'by mistake' after they went away to college (more importantly, can I get mine back?!?!?)?

In the real world, nothing is black and white and you, ultimately, get what you negotiate. To me, what you did was 100% acceptable. You explained your mistake to the buyer and you worked something out which you both accepted. I tend to agree with some of the others here, though, that the true 'moral high ground' would've been to honor the sale and eat the loss.

This. All. Of. This.

[Star_Cards]

Exactly, now pretend if I did buy a ridicoulously low BIN and the seller asks me to cancel but I refuse to, that's just really mean and nasty imo, dishonest and immoral to take advantage of a fellow human being. But I guess more and more turns greedy. I have to be careful though, there are plenty of wolves out there. I'm spanking myself right now for doing such a mistake lol.

I don't see it as being dishonest or immoral to buy a card at a low BIN and expect the card. It was the seller that listed it and even clicked the list button on the next page where ebay asks you to review your item to make sure it is correct. Now, I'm not saying that I would or wouldn't let the seller back out of the deal. I guess it would depend on the card and the difference. I guess if I found an item at 4.99 BIN and those cards sell for 499.99 I'd expect that I wouldn't get the card, but would more than likely let the seller off the hook. I think it would depend on his attitude towards it.

I'm also not sure how I would handle it if the shoe were on the other foot. I've listed thousands of items over the years and don't recall making a huge listing price snafu like that. Part of me looks at it like I listed the card and confirmed the listing so I should follow through. I've misquoted cards before and have always sold them at the quote, but it was never a very large sum of money lost. I think at that point it would again depend on the card and the difference. At the very least, I would send the buyer something for free if he let me out of the deal. I'd say a reward is in order for your buyer that let you off the hook.

[Star_Cards]

Yeah technically I understand, but morally I don't understand how anyone would demand that with a clear heart. It's like theft almost. Once I saw a Carey Price future watch patch auto rc for a bin of $60, I took it and asked the guy if he was serious, he had forgotten a zero of course. So you think I should have pushed on back then and demanded a sale? Sorry that's just so egoistic I don't understand how anyone can think like this. It's like "ha ha ha I'm gonna rip this guy off I'm so smart!". Sorry for overreacting now but I really hate the grabbing greedy ego trend that's in society today.

I agree it's not nice knowing that the person listed it as a mistake, but it's nothing close to theft. A seller has two spots to submit and then approve the price. If someone lists an item at a price below and someone else buys it I don't see that as the buyer being greedy. The buyer did nothing but buy an item at the sellers confirmed listed price. It's not a rip off by the buyer IMO.

I'd say in this instance hopefully it's a lesson learned.

[razzamaztaz]

I did pay off the buyer, it's noted above somewhere. This is only the second time I make such a bin mistake in five years so it don't happen often. Not sure how this slipped through, perhaps the same way I may walk out into the street when there's red light or unlock the door with my comb. I got epileptic seizures of a sort that my brain just shortwire sometimes. But whether it was caused of that or just sloppiness is hard for me to tell.

I realise after talking to tons of people privately, in sweden and in america, the view on this is completely different depending on country. 100% of swedes agree with me, 40% of americans agree with me. It could also be cause, I repeat again, we actually do have something called "common sense" in our law. No you can't just do any bargain online, you have a responsibility to check it out if the price is too low. Like the $5000 car he bought for $1000, that's a fifth of the price. If he buy that car and it turns out its sgtolen or have unpaid debts or whatever, the police will not listen to your reason "hey it was a bargain!". It's common sense to question it and thus your criminal charges will be equal to the guy selling the stolen car. As for a hockeycard, it could be stolen, there could also be a kid or mentally retarded person selling it, and if it's any of that, again, you are responsible for controlling this or you're getting it. But these are swedish law, and swedish cultural thinking, I'm starting to suspect it doesn't work like that with you.

[TheIronHorse4]

I did pay off the buyer, it's noted above somewhere. This is only the second time I make such a bin mistake in five years so it don't happen often. Not sure how this slipped through, perhaps the same way I may walk out into the street when there's red light or unlock the door with my comb. I got epileptic seizures of a sort that my brain just shortwire sometimes. But whether it was caused of that or just sloppiness is hard for me to tell.

I realise after talking to tons of people privately, in sweden and in america, the view on this is completely different depending on country. 100% of swedes agree with me, 40% of americans agree with me. It could also be cause, I repeat again, we actually do have something called "common sense" in our law. No you can't just do any bargain online, you have a responsibility to check it out if the price is too low. Like the $5000 car he bought for $1000, that's a fifth of the price. If he buy that car and it turns out its sgtolen or have unpaid debts or whatever, the police will not listen to your reason "hey it was a bargain!". It's common sense to question it and thus your criminal charges will be equal to the guy selling the stolen car. As for a hockeycard, it could be stolen, there could also be a kid or mentally retarded person selling it, and if it's any of that, again, you are responsible for controlling this or you're getting it. But these are swedish law, and swedish cultural thinking, I'm starting to suspect it doesn't work like that with you.

America is the land of opportunity and a full fledged capitalist economy, the largest in the world. This brings out the worst in some people. It is eat or be eaten, and many people are sharks when it comes to pouncing an opportunity that is too good to be true. So yes, I would say there is quite a difference between the two countries, without knowing much about Sweden's economy.

Talking morally, you'll never convince the greedy buyer that they're wrong. It becomes a blurry line between legally right that will somehow be blended into morally right. It becomes a "how can something be morally wrong if it is legally right?" I happen to think there is no way you can justify as being morally right, but others here have tried and will continue to.

This is going to become a thread where everyone will have to agree to disagree. Both sides have their points, both right and wrong. It is what it is at this point.

Razz, if you ever find your way to Buffalo, NY. Feel free to look me up. I'll buy you a beer and we can discuss something a little more pleasant....like hockey perhaps.

[Syncope]

What's wrong with preying on people's mistakes? It sounds like you have very high expectations of the internet. If you worried about making a BIN mistake just triple check. $13 Jordan Eberle exclusive young guns are excellent. Also, it appears that you think the internet has morals... hehehe

[Star_Cards]

I did pay off the buyer, it's noted above somewhere. This is only the second time I make such a bin mistake in five years so it don't happen often. Not sure how this slipped through, perhaps the same way I may walk out into the street when there's red light or unlock the door with my comb. I got epileptic seizures of a sort that my brain just shortwire sometimes. But whether it was caused of that or just sloppiness is hard for me to tell.

I realise after talking to tons of people privately, in sweden and in america, the view on this is completely different depending on country. 100% of swedes agree with me, 40% of americans agree with me. It could also be cause, I repeat again, we actually do have something called "common sense" in our law. No you can't just do any bargain online, you have a responsibility to check it out if the price is too low. Like the $5000 car he bought for $1000, that's a fifth of the price. If he buy that car and it turns out its sgtolen or have unpaid debts or whatever, the police will not listen to your reason "hey it was a bargain!". It's common sense to question it and thus your criminal charges will be equal to the guy selling the stolen car. As for a hockeycard, it could be stolen, there could also be a kid or mentally retarded person selling it, and if it's any of that, again, you are responsible for controlling this or you're getting it. But these are swedish law, and swedish cultural thinking, I'm starting to suspect it doesn't work like that with you.

glad you rewarded him for letting you off the hook.

I find it a bit offensive and funny that you seem to say that americans don't have "common sense" in our law. Actually I'm not sure what you mean by "in our law" as this is a matter of a seller listing something at the wrong price rather than a legal issue.

You are crazy to say that you can't just do any bargain online. Do you realize all of the items that get bought on just ebay that are sold under current market value for many different reasons? It's not the buyers responsibility to make sure that the seller is protected from himself whether it's listed too low by mistake or because he's not knowledgable of his product to list it at the proper price. Comparing this to that of buying stolen goods is completely different. Yeah, if you buy an item and it's stolen, whether you know it or not, it can be taken away from you if it's proven to be stolen and the police come asking about it. That's nothing even close to what we are talking about here. However, if I buy a 5,000 car for 1,000 because the seller lists it in error or because the seller doesn't know his 5,000 car is worth 5,000, that is not the buyers problem to be blunt. Listing errors go back on the seller and their lack of verification when they click the confirm button. Specifically on ebay when you click to list an item there are legal aspects you are agreeing too as well. Like I said before I've sold on ebay for years and the price the is the most important part of listing an item in my opinion. That is the thing I make sure is correct. It's also front and center when you see your listing in the review page right before you confirm.

As for a kid or mentally retarded person selling a hockey card, there are age limits to having an ebay account as there are certain legal requirements that one enters into when they list or buy something on ebay. It would be up to a parent or guardian to monitor what their kids sell and buy on an ebay account.

Bottom line, if item is listed for lower than typical ebay market price it's up to the seller to proof read his listing before hitting "list". The buyer has no responsibility to save the seller from himself.

[Star_Cards]

What's wrong with preying on people's mistakes? It sounds like you have very high expectations of the internet. If you worried about making a BIN mistake just triple check. $13 Jordan Eberle exclusive young guns are excellent. Also, it appears that you think the internet has morals... hehehe

If someone wants to say it's a moral issue to buy this card isn't it just as immoral for a seller to list a item on ebay and then back out of a legally binding agreement after the seller buys it?

[ralral33]

i think you should just take more time double checking your items before you post them on ebay , END OF STORY.everyone makes mistakes just take your time and dont let it happen again thats all,

[ReimerFan]

Legally: No issue
Morally: Grey
Ethically: Wrong

Some people feel entitled to something if they feel that it is legally good. It is hard to argue one point or another for this issue. I think everyone agrees that it is objectively correct to purchase a item through the bindings of any contract agreed to though ebay. Of course providing all legal issues, and ebay rules are followed. The moral and ethical standpoints are subjective and there is no correct answer. It's who you are, how you were brought up, and what you feel is just. Everyone has their own opinion and no amount of debating is likely going to change that. One can just hope that at the end of the day you can look in the mirror and see a good person looking back at you =)