Results 21 to 30 of 35
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08-23-2008, 06:28 PM #21
Isn't this the same thing as giving a doctor a right to assisted suicide?
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08-23-2008, 06:33 PM #22
Isn't this the same thing as giving a doctor a right to assisted suicide?
I say it is worse. At least the person being killed in assisted suicide is requesting the service. Their is a choice involved. These babies are simply being killed because the mother has changed her mind.
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08-23-2008, 07:09 PM #23
I agree 100% on that. You are killing (or preventing life, if you somehow feel the baby is not yet alive) a human being against their will. If someone has made a conscious decision to end their life, that's their prerogative and I say go for it. People get all up in arms about protecting animals and how they can't speak for themselves...well these babies are in the same situation...and they're human beings!
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08-23-2008, 07:14 PM #24
I couldn't finish it
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08-23-2008, 08:45 PM #25
Who actually has this procedure done? I support regular abortions, but not this. But I think people are going to try and garner support to ban regular abortions by showing things like this (which I honestly have not heard of before I read this thread) to tug at people's heart strings. I mean, just look at them showing the beautiful women with tears in their eyes!
Mike, could you provide some statistics on the prevalence of this procedure? I just can't picture many women going through a procedure with a baby's body out and the head still in and sticking scissors in and all this other stuff.
The debate between regular abortion and partial birth abortion must be kept separate. That's the key here.
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08-23-2008, 08:50 PM #26
Who actually has this procedure done? I support regular abortions, but not this. But I think people are going to try and garner support to ban regular abortions by showing things like this (which I honestly have not heard of before I read this thread) to tug at people's heart strings. I mean, just look at them showing the beautiful women with tears in their eyes!
Mike, could you provide some statistics on the prevalence of this procedure? I just can't picture many women going through a procedure with a baby's body out and the head still in and sticking scissors in and all this other stuff.
The debate between regular abortion and partial birth abortion must be kept separate. That's the key here.
I will dig up some stats later. If someone else wants to do some research please do!
Personally, I am ok with abortion in the first 30 days. Again, I'm an atheist and my abortion opinion is based on moral grounds not religious. If most countries around the world performed more abortions in the first 30 days we would have less war, poverty and over population. The sad part is only rich countries have abortions readily available, so it is US and Europe that is having them and not Africa and Asia. The US and Europe is paying for this with a negative population growth from its citizens. They are ONLY growing due to immigration and why Europe and America will look very different 40 years from now.
EDIT: Here is a great article on the subject with some great facts. Here are some of the main points.
- Former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop and other eminent medical authorities told Congress: "Partial-birth abortion is never medically necessary to protect the mother's health or her future fertility. On the contrary, this procedure can pose a significant threat to both." Also, Jay Sekulow of the Center for Law and Justice said the "so-called health exception" is a false argument aimed at undermining a "law designed to end (a) horrific procedure."
- A January 2003 Gallop poll found that 70% favored a ban on partial-birth abortion with only 25% against it. If the partial-birth abortion procedure would be shown on prime time TV, the current 70% against it would likely climb up into the 90% range.
- A partial-birth abortion is performed in the second or third trimester and entails inducing a breech delivery with forceps, delivering the legs, arms, and torso only, puncturing the back of the skull with a scissors or trochar, inserting a suction catheter into the skull, sucking out the contents of the skull so as to collapse it and completing the delivery by removing the collapsed skull.
ANOTHER EDIT:
Found some stats from the Wall Street Journal.
Ron Fitzsimmons, executive director of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers, told The New York Times that "in the vast majority of cases, the procedure is performed on a healthy mother with a healthy fetus" (Feb. 26, 1997).
Mr. Fitzsimmons elsewhere estimated that 4,000-5,000 abortions annually are performed by the partial birth method.
So as many as 5,000 annually! Obama will make this legal again!
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08-23-2008, 10:46 PM #27
Originally Posted by JayJagFan
It's definitely not as prevalent as other forms of abortion, probably precisely because of the brutality of it. To me, the debate is one and the same, but I know I'm probably in the minority on that here.
Originally Posted by mikesilvia
I'm Christian, but my abortion opinion is also based on moral and not religious grounds. I don't feel anyone has the right to prevent anyone else's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, regardless of how many days old they are, simply because they choose to. And, like I said before, the vast majority of abortions are simply the choice of the "parent(s)" to take the easy way out instead of accept the responsibilities of their actions.
Originally Posted by mikesilvia
That's a pretty cold and calculating way to look at it. I can't see how it would reduce war, but true on the others. Obviously I am against abortion, but I'll never say lower population (or slower growth I should say) is a bad thing.
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08-23-2008, 10:55 PM #28Presidential hopeful and outspoken abortion advocate Barack Obama argued on Sunday that the partial birth abortion ban is unacceptable without exceptions to protect the life or health of the mother.
"On an issue like partial birth abortion, I strongly believe that the state can properly restrict late-term abortions. I have said so repeatedly. All I've said is we should have a provision to protect the health of the mother, and many of the bills that came before me didn't have that," Obama told FOX News Sunday.
This is the quote you provided Mike, but I'm still looking for the quote where he says he wants to make it legal again? I don't see any way of interpreting the above quote as a stance for legalizing partial birth abortions.
And Pimp, I'm fine with your pro-life stance....but there is a thing called a birthday for a reason...it's the day you are born...when a baby is still in the womb, they have not lived for any days.
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08-23-2008, 11:02 PM #29
That's a pretty cold and calculating way to look at it. I can't see how it would reduce war, but true on the others. Obviously I am against abortion, but I'll never say lower population (or slower growth I should say) is a bad thing.
It may be cold, but I feel the truth. War is fought over resources. War in third world countries like Sudan, East Timor, Somalia and tons of other places are killing each other over poverty, which is caused by overpopulation and corruption.
The truth is that in third world countries the birthrate is double or more of the US. It is just a simply fact that impoverished countries have more children and complicate the problem more. Look through the CIA World Fact book and compare most third world countries to Europe, Canada and the US. There are more people than resources!
Now, listen to what I'm saying. I believe the US and Europe are butchering our children much more. So, in no way am I saying that the US or Europe is morally better than third world countries. The US has had 40 million abortions, far more than any other country I know.
This is the quote you provided Mike, but I'm still looking for the quote where he says he wants to make it legal again? I don't see any way of interpreting the above quote as a stance for legalizing partial birth abortions.
Obama has given tons of speeches are Planned Parenthood and other pro-choice rallies. Also, if you review all of his votes and other speeches you will see that once in office with a Democrat controlled Congress we are surely going to see the Partial Birth abortion ban lifted.
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08-23-2008, 11:09 PM #30
I dont doubt you, I'd just like to see him actually say he's in favor of partial birth abortions...Obviously these guys say whatever they can to get elected, but I dont want to just start assuming his position on certain topics.
The way I interpret his quote is he's saying that he's fine with a ban on partial birth abortion so long is there a provision written in the law that allows for discretion if their is a health risk posed to the mother
Even if every doctor in the world agrees that theres more potential for risk by performing the procedure, we dont want to word laws that exclusively prohibit it for that one in a million case where it might be necessary
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