Anyone offended with GU Flags???

[rainman67ko]

Yay, we got a response from a member who served...and what a great response, too. Thanks koconnor67 for a great post--very informative!

Thanks Dude!

It was a Cliff Claven moment... Inspired by a great topic from missteenct! I think it's fantastic when young people (younger than me lol) raise points like she did.

I also love how patriotic the members of this site are. Hockey, more than any other western team sport, is an international game. The Canadians invented it, the Russians expanded it, and the Americans made a hybrid form of it. All of us can be proud of our national teams, and our service members, and display that pride in the forums, or on our backs, and now in our collections.

Thanks for the comment and thanks to missteenct for the thread!

[westey]

ones in those pics are ok, other then that no way

[SteakNchop]

They cut the flag off the jersey....don't see a problem with that.

[Redman5006]

I agree 100% with koconner. I have no problem with these cards at all. I am very patriotic, respect the flag very much. I try to pass this respect on to younger people. If we have a problem with cutting up flag patches and determine its disrespectful, what about throwing out an old t-shirt with a flag printed on it? Is that disrespectful? Or throwing a magizine in the trash with a flag on the cover?

[mmalpedo01]

I am an active duty member of the U.S. Air Force and take no offense to the flag "patch" cards since they are as someone else said, patches of flags and not acutal flags. Great thread by they way!

[WSC08]

I see where some people are coming from when they are offended, but they are not cutting the flags just around them. I really don't have a problem with it, I actually really like them.

[Jobberman]

I am with KoConner as well. I am a US Army vet, I don't see any disrespect, but I am one who follows the code of the flat. I do consider the WBC team a patriotic group, hence being able to wear the patch, but.....from the flag code site..

Is it okay for an advertisement to use the flag?
No. Section 8i of the Flag Code reads, "The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever." The earliest drafts of the Flag Code were in response to the use of the flag in advertisements and on packaging.

Does the card company advertise or promote the cards


According to the Flag Code, a flag is a flag or anything "by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag."

If they are sold as GU/Flag cards, then the advertising rule would apply, since represents a flag.

[rainman67ko]

I am with KoConner as well. I am a US Army vet, I don't see any disrespect, but I am one who follows the code of the flat. I do consider the WBC team a patriotic group, hence being able to wear the patch, but.....from the flag code site..

Is it okay for an advertisement to use the flag?
No. Section 8i of the Flag Code reads, "The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever." The earliest drafts of the Flag Code were in response to the use of the flag in advertisements and on packaging.

Does the card company advertise or promote the cards


According to the Flag Code, a flag is a flag or anything "by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag."

If they are sold as GU/Flag cards, then the advertising rule would apply, since represents a flag.

Jobberman is right - The literal wording of the code, established by congress in 1942, disallows for a lot of things we see everyday in the media, at major sporting events, during parades, in the grocery store, (at the PX too ha ha), in toy stores, clothes, etc. There was a wave of renewed patriotism that was "flag" focused since 9-11 and the image of the flag remains a pervasive icon to this day. I would be disappointed if it where not.

Prior to 9-11 I think the flag code was only loosely recognized or adhered to by the general public. Most people are aware of the "don't let it touch the ground" deal but not much else unless they have served the colors. Here is a link from the same site that actually shows a 1997 Bowman card, along with several other violations of the code -http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/wallofshame.htm

So literally, the cards are in violation (cut or not), like stamps, and that big field flag at the football game halftime show, and Kid Rocks shirt, and your 4th of July party napkins and plates, and the Bruce Springsteen album, and...

I think, for me (keep in mind it's my opinion only), the enforcement of such a law or code is relevant or required only if the purpose of the violation is intentional disrespect for the flag, the nation, or what it represents. Rigorous adherence to such laws or principles would need a body to enforce them similar to the fascists brown shirts of the 20th century. I do not believe there is a place for such fanaticism or extremism in today's America nor do I think one can find many examples of enforcement of the code where disrespect was unintentional. Often times laws and codes are written to be interpreted and applied to a subject but are almost impossible to be determined as definitive.

I still like the insert cards. I have a lot of the 1980-81 hockey OPC or Topps cards of the U.S. team with the little flag on them. I want to get the Patrick Kane Pride of the Nation patch card #/25. I have a 59/50 New Era Yankees hat with the flag on the side I bought at playoff game at Yankee Stadium weeks after 9/11. I teach my kids to honor and respect the flag. I will use the code as a guide but I would not even pretend to be able to adhere to all of that. My little guy always says - "Dad-look its your favorite flag!" when we go to the Pirate games or Penguin games or wherever he see's it. We fly one at home and have some displayed around the house. He is getting good exposure to the pride, and will learn to display that pride with honor and respect.

Great thread.