Series Discussion Thread - Washington Capitals vs Toronto Maple Leafs

[geschrocks33]

Hey Sharky, your Sharks lost to the Oilers!! Let that sink in for a bit lol.. A Team that still remains pretty much intact as the 1 that Lost to the Penguins in the Finals last year & you went out in the First round this year. Your Core players are old yet the Leafs Core players are 20 somethings. You should prepare for some long tough years ahead as i see a rebuild in your future. The Sharks were so close last year but you know close just does not count. At Least the Leafs have a Bright Future, & the Sharks are headed in the opposite direction. Like i said, let that sink in!!

Just because his team lost & might not have as bright a future as the Leafs, doesn't mean he can't dislike them. I'm a Sabres & Avs fan both my teams were a pile of junk this year and I still am happy the Leafs are out. Can still dislike teams no matter how your own team did

On a serious note though, Leafs played pretty darn good and showed that they are legit. Should be a fun team to watch in the next few years and definitely on their way to be being a contender

[jameslacarte]

Thats fine with me if he doesnt like them. I dont like the Sharks & i was just pointing out that at least we as Leafs fans have something to look forward to where in his teams future there is a rebuild coming. Time to put those old Sharks Geezers to bed. Joe Thornton will go down as one of the best players to never win anything. Think the Bruins got rid of him for a reason??

[Craig2]

I'm really looking forward to reading the hundreds of inevitable articles about the Leafs' bright future, and how this season was a success.

[30ranfordfan]

Leafs management owes a huge debt of thanks to the Toronto sports media. This team was supposed to finish at (or near) the bottom of the league again this year, and I'm pretty sure everyone had Washington winning this past series in 3 games.

The Leafs set the bar very low with expectations this year, and they were able to beat them - big time. Leaf fans should be happy with that.

You're bang on though... we will now spend the next 3 months hearing over and over again about how bright the Leaf's future is, how the window to contend is now open, and what a great learning experience their 6 games vs Washington was.

What I expect to see very little of, would be articles stating the real obvious with their team: Matthews is the real deal, and will blossom into a top-10 player in the league (if he's not there already). The rest of them? There is a very real chance you'll see regression from Nylander / Brown / Marner... and they'll be in a dog fight to finish as high in the regular season as they did this year.

I'm really looking forward to reading the hundreds of inevitable articles about the Leafs' bright future, and how this season was a success.

[jameslacarte]

I'm not looking forward to hearing all the Hooplah over the next 3 months either. I do think your wrong about Marner & Nylander for sure though. Marner is going to get better, the guy does things with the puck & makes passes that alot of other players cannot do but unfortunately with inexperience comes alot of mistakes. Im sure he will clean those up. Although Nylander set the bar pretty high for himself this year im sure he will get as many goals, if not more, than he did this year. He has a wicked shot & quick release & he should better his totals from this year. Playing on a line with Matthews will certainly help as well. Im not sure what to think about Brown. He may have overachieved this year but only time will tell. Under the tutelage of Babcock & Company this team will be even better next year. Hopefully in the off season they can work on our defence & make it better, our achilles heel all year long. Toronto needs a true #1 defenceman. I like Rielly but he's not ready for that role yet if ever. Its going to be a long summer with the Blue Jays sucking this year so i cant wait to see the puck drop for next season..

[jcharles66]

I'm a Preds fan, but had so much fun watching the Leafs' rookies compete. I hope they can carry it into next year.

Here's a funny, related story. My mother is elderly and last week I took her to Neil Diamond's 50th anniversary concert. Fast forward to game 6 that I'm watching on TV. My mom calls and asks what I'm doing, and I say I'm watching the Caps and Leafs play hockey. I then asked her to pick who she wants to win and she picked the Leafs. It wasn't 3 minutes later when the Leafs scored and a few minutes after that , they played a few seconds of "Sweet Caroline" by Neil Diamond over the venue speaker. We got a good laugh out of that. I think Toronto now has my mom as a fan :)

[30ranfordfan]

There is often regression with players in their second year. I think it mostly has to do with there now being a book out on them, and opposing coaches having a better idea on how to contain them. No, this doesn't happen with every player (so sure... some of these Leafs could buck that trend, I don't want to sound like I don't think that's possible... I just wouldn't count on it) and I don't think it applies to the truly elite talent: which I think Matthews is a part of. He might not score 40 next year, but if you set the expectation level at 35 G / 80 points: I bet he can hit that.

Marner - I don't know. I'm not a Leaf fan..... I have no issue with Marner... but my opinion hasn't changed a lot since the day they drafted him:

1. They picked the wrong guy. Should have taken Hanifin.
2. He's the small / skilled forward that Leaf fans won't be able to run out of town fast enough.

There's probably another thread around here where I've said something to the effect of "I believe that Marner can become Jordan Eberle good". That's not supposed to be a knock against him at all..... but that's a good way for me to illustrate that I think he'll pan out to be a good player, just not a superstar.


Coaching, meh. Babcock is a good coach, I guess, but his impact is being oversold IMO. Leafs are a playoff team this year because they were so bad last season they got Austin Matthews. If they picked 3rd last year, they're picking in the top 5 again this season. Coaching / Systems - It helps young players.. and mediocre players. Great players? Coaches need to get out of the way.

Babcock is credited for how awesome Detroit was all those years... but the truth is they were a contender before he got the job, and they continued to be until the end of the 11-12 season. Once the 2nd greatest player in franchise history retired, Red Wings were average (at best) with no honest chance at contending. Babcock and his system didn't make Detroit a great team... Niklas Lidstrom did.

Credit where credit is due.... if I'm voting, Babcock is coach of the year. I just don't think he's got the magic elixir that's going to make a bunch of these guys all continue to improve, when history shows us that (most likely) several will regress.

I'm not looking forward to hearing all the Hooplah over the next 3 months either. I do think your wrong about Marner & Nylander for sure though. Marner is going to get better, the guy does things with the puck & makes passes that alot of other players cannot do but unfortunately with inexperience comes alot of mistakes. Im sure he will clean those up. Although Nylander set the bar pretty high for himself this year im sure he will get as many goals, if not more, than he did this year. He has a wicked shot & quick release & he should better his totals from this year. Playing on a line with Matthews will certainly help as well. Im not sure what to think about Brown. He may have overachieved this year but only time will tell. Under the tutelage of Babcock & Company this team will be even better next year. Hopefully in the off season they can work on our defence & make it better, our achilles heel all year long. Toronto needs a true #1 defenceman. I like Rielly but he's not ready for that role yet if ever. Its going to be a long summer with the Blue Jays sucking this year so i cant wait to see the puck drop for next season..

Just adding: Yeah, the Jays are a mess. I expect the team to get blown up later this summer, and a full on rebuild (around Sanchez, Stroman, and Osuna) start this winter.

[YoungGuns1988]

As someone who watched every leafs game this year, I disagree with that assessment/view of Marner. There were many stretches where he played every bit as good, if not better, then Matthews. He carried the JVR and Bozak line by himself. If you watched him in the playoffs, you did not see what Leafs fans saw all regular season, not even close. There were reports that he was playing through an injury. Taking Hannifan over him would have been a tremendous error in my opinion, especially since we did not know we would have Matthews at that time. If Marner only turns out to be an Eberle based on what I saw this season, it would be a huge disappointment.

I can easily see the Leafs regressing as a team next season, hard to think they wont seeing as they did historic, record breaking things this year. While the team may regress overall, I do not think that any of Matthews, Marner or Nylander will regress in terms of their overall stats. In fact, as good as they were, there were many instances where they can improve their game.

There is often regression with players in their second year. I think it mostly has to do with there now being a book out on them, and opposing coaches having a better idea on how to contain them. No, this doesn't happen with every player (so sure... some of these Leafs could buck that trend, I don't want to sound like I don't think that's possible... I just wouldn't count on it) and I don't think it applies to the truly elite talent: which I think Matthews is a part of. He might not score 40 next year, but if you set the expectation level at 35 G / 80 points: I bet he can hit that.

Marner - I don't know. I'm not a Leaf fan..... I have no issue with Marner... but my opinion hasn't changed a lot since the day they drafted him:

1. They picked the wrong guy. Should have taken Hanifin.
2. He's the small / skilled forward that Leaf fans won't be able to run out of town fast enough.

There's probably another thread around here where I've said something to the effect of "I believe that Marner can become Jordan Eberle good". That's not supposed to be a knock against him at all..... but that's a good way for me to illustrate that I think he'll pan out to be a good player, just not a superstar.


Coaching, meh. Babcock is a good coach, I guess, but his impact is being oversold IMO. Leafs are a playoff team this year because they were so bad last season they got Austin Matthews. If they picked 3rd last year, they're picking in the top 5 again this season. Coaching / Systems - It helps young players.. and mediocre players. Great players? Coaches need to get out of the way.

Babcock is credited for how awesome Detroit was all those years... but the truth is they were a contender before he got the job, and they continued to be until the end of the 11-12 season. Once the 2nd greatest player in franchise history retired, Red Wings were average (at best) with no honest chance at contending. Babcock and his system didn't make Detroit a great team... Niklas Lidstrom did.

Credit where credit is due.... if I'm voting, Babcock is coach of the year. I just don't think he's got the magic elixir that's going to make a bunch of these guys all continue to improve, when history shows us that (most likely) several will regress.





Just adding: Yeah, the Jays are a mess. I expect the team to get blown up later this summer, and a full on rebuild (around Sanchez, Stroman, and Osuna) start this winter.

[jameslacarte]

Doug Gilmour was a small player too! Now, dont get me wrong, im not comparing Marner to Gilmour by any sense, we can only hope & pray he will become that good but what i saw from Marner this year is that this kid has talent. Some of the passes he makes left me with mouth wide open, jaw dropped. He isnt finished growing either & with 20 lbs added to his smallish frame he wont be that small anymore. I expect big things from Marner next year, especially after this year. His confidence will grow & the Skies the limit for this kid. Like YoungGuns said, there were parts of the season that he was every bit as good as Matthews was & I think next year will be his coming out party. With 1 season under his belt he will continue to climb the ladder especially under the wing of Bozak & Van Riemsdyk. I dont expect that line to be any different next year. Only time will tell i guess..

[Sharky94]

Just because his team lost & might not have as bright a future as the Leafs, doesn't mean he can't dislike them. I'm a Sabres & Avs fan both my teams were a pile of junk this year and I still am happy the Leafs are out. Can still dislike teams no matter how your own team did

On a serious note though, Leafs played pretty darn good and showed that they are legit. Should be a fun team to watch in the next few years and definitely on their way to be being a contender

@geschrocks33, don't try debating him. It will only end up in him cussing you out because you disagree with him, because of course, anybody that happens to have a differing opinion than him isn't worthy of life, basically. He can wrap himself in his blue blanket and talk about the "future" of the Leafs, like they have been for the past 50 years. At least the Caps and Sharks have at least made the Finals once in that time. And of course, he instantly became an Oilers fan once he noticed they beat the Sharks, simply for my amusement. So yeah, my comment was a bit snarky. But it was simply a copy of the nice little comment left by the Oiler bandwagoner that he left for me in the Oilers/Sharks thread. Of course, I am sure he will retort that he has been a "lifelong" Oiler fan -- ever since they drafted McDavid!