auction snipers

[S.A.M.]

I am an autosniper and am not ashamed at all. I started doing it becuase I don't have access to eBay at work. So when there were auctions that ended during the workday, I would just set my bidding assistant (i use bidnip.com) to take care of it for me.

Since then I've realized it helps with other things, one of which is avoiding shill bidding problems. Also it eliminates the chance of my internet being down or something near the auction close.

In my opinion "sniping" or bidding late is more fair. Think about it this way. Bidding late is like having all bidders secretly write down the most they're willing to pay on a piece of paper and giving them all to the seller. Then, simply, the person willing to pay the most gets the item. This way there isn't a bidding war so the buyers are given an equal chance, although in this scenario if you bid publicly (like 3 days before the auction ends with your highest bid) everyone who bids late already knows you're position, it's like showing your poker hand to everyone at the table.

If you show your hand, everyone who can't beat you will fold (not bid on the auction) and everyone who can beat your hand will keep playing to beat you (will bid on the auction) so you're playing a losing game. Why bid early and show your hand? In fact I've probably sold close to 300 items on eBay, from sports cards to clothes to electronics, and not once has the person who bid their max more than 1 day away from close won the auction.

[ballcardfreak]

Sniping is an art. I've got it to a science that even software can't stop me. In fact, I've taught 6 other people how to outbid software in the closing seconds. I've seen 2 of them reply to this post. Hey guys, how are you? The way I see it..if you do not do the sniping then someone else will. As far as shill bidding goes. I can't really say anything about it. I will say that if any of you were a seller and going to lose money on a card that you bought a year ago for $20 and it was ending at $5.00 you would have your buddy bump your auction to $25. I know that is a fact and so do all of you. Lets face it...this conversation on both sides is about the Big $$$$$$$$ involved in cards anymore. I wish you all a safe and happy new year. Oh yeah, Please PM me for lessons on how to outsnipe software. later ya all.



Thanks
Daren

[S.A.M.]

You can't outsnipe software if the auto-placed bid is higher than yours.

And NO I wouldn't shill bid even if I was going to lose money on the sale. In fact I've lost plenty of money on cards and haven't shilled once.

That's two users now that I know not buy from on eBay, ballcardfreak1976 and rayny1.

[envoy98]

Welcome to the darkside dodger23. It's good to have you. ;)

By the way rayny1, remind me to avoid your auctions. I would assume if you don't think shilling is bad, then you must do it. So my guess is you must not buy much, if you do, and you had been shilled I strongly believe you would have a much different attitude about it.

What if a card that booked for $100 was listed, seller was too cheap to put a reserve, offers it for .99 cents on opening bid. You come along and bid $100 because you need that card and don't want to get outbid, knowing you'll probably end up only paying $20-$30 for it anyway...Well, the day the auction ends is here..2 minutes left & you're still winning it for .99 cents...When all of a sudden...a bid..ah, but you are still high bidder at $10...boom, another bid...you are high bidder at $25.05...boom another bid...you are high bidder at $29...$33...$35...$50....$95...oh no, outbid at $102.50....crap you say. Well, that's over book. I don't want to pay anymore.

wait a minute...you refresh the screen and you are high bidder and again at .99 cents but what happened to all those bids? Oh wait! They've been retracted...Good you say!

3 seconds left...you're thinking to yourself. I just won a $100 card for 99 cents.

Refresh to see...Congratulations, You've won the item! Your winning bid? $100.

Congrats! You've just been shilled to your top dollar and you're on the hook for $100. What do you think of shilling now?

[vikingfan101]

Good point there envoy. Ive seen it before, personally never happened to me, but Ive seen it done.

[S.A.M.]

Great example envoy98

[Syno]

Is it really possible to cancel ebay bids that fast?

Or do u mean that someone can cancel their bid after they won?

[rayny1]

first off, I do not "shill" any of my auctions. It`s against eBay rules which I stated earlier. ballcardfreak said it best.

As far as shill bidding goes. I can't really say anything about it. I will say that if any of you were a seller and going to lose money on a card that you bought a year ago for $20 and it was ending at $5.00 you would have your buddy bump your auction to $25. I know that is a fact and so do all of you. Lets face it...this conversation on both sides is about the Big $$$$$$$$ involved in cards anymore. I wish you all a safe and happy new year. Oh yeah, Please PM me for lessons on how to outsnipe software. later ya all.



Thanks
Daren

This is what I was trying to get at. Sorry to those of you who couldn`t comprehend it correctly. I was comparing shill bidding to getting ripped off by fake cards. There is nothing worse then winning a card and having it come back as a fake(patch/auto/etc). Much worse than overpaying for a card that is at least real.
As for envoy98 and his perception of it all is that if someone puts in a $100 bid, then that is the top price that person was willing to pay. How does that person get ripped off? I would think that person is a bit nuts to pay that much for a card, but I know there are a lot of nuts out there who have nothing else better to spend their hard earned money, or their parents hard earned money on. This hobby has become nothing more than "all about the money", which is fine with me because thats all sports are about these days anyway.

Like ballcardfreak stated, you all do it. There is no way anyone here would let a $100+ valued card go for $1.00. You all have a buddy or even someone from this board here bring up the price and more than likely in the hopes no one else bids on it so you can keep the card(s) and try again at another time. That is not "dishonest" or "unethical". More like saving your ™™™ from losing out bigtime. If I had "friends", I would`ve asked them many of times to outbid something for me. Unfortunately I don`t have friends. :icon_lol: I let all my auctions ride and whatever they end at is what they end at. Go check if you want and you`ll see the stuff I "give away" almost for free. To tell you the truth, I probably lose more money than what I make on eBay after paying all the fees and shipping. :new_rofl:

Hopefully one day I have something you really need and you hold yourself back from bidding on it.


Cheers! Have a Happy New Year.

[S.A.M.]

Just because eBay has a rule against shilling isn't the only reason not to do it. Did anyone read the link I posted? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill) Shilling IS CHEATING and it happens all over the place.

And NO we "DON'T ALL SHILL"! How can you make such a broad accusation?! That's like me saying "Everyone who collects football cards is a shoplifter!", it's a baseless and outlandish accusation.

[dodger23]

Referencing the shill bidding tutorial on eBay:

1) Sally is selling her car on eBay. She's worried that her car might sell for less than the amount she hopes for. To make sure that no bidder can win her car for less than the price she has in mind, Sally uses another eBay account to place bids on her own car, raising the price to what she feels is fair.

Answer: No, because Sally's bidding on her own car violates the eBay Shill Bidding Policy.

Tip: If Sally wants to make sure she doesn't sell her car below a specific price, she should use a reserve price, or set an appropriate starting price, or use the Fixed Price format that allows her to set a Buy It Now price and entertain Best Offers.

2) Bob was the winning bidder in an auction for a used bicycle. Unknown to Bob, the seller had placed bids on his own item during the auction. Was Bob harmed by the seller's Shill Bidding?

Answer: Yes, because the seller's Shill Bidding distorted the fair auction process and apparent desirability of the bicycle, and Bob paid an artificially inflated price for the bicycle.

11) Kelly sells collectible stamps on eBay. Several of Kelly's friends also sell stamps on eBay. Kelly and her friends have a private agreement – they will bid on each others listings in order to drive prices up to an agreed level, thereby maximizing their profits when an "outsider" wins an item. Which of the following are true?

Answer: All of these are true. Kelly and her friends are acting as each others "agents", they are distorting the fair marketplace, and they are violating eBay's Shill Bidding policy.

Equally important, Kelly and her friends may have broken several laws. Please read the following, taken from a Press Release from the Office of the New York State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer:

"State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer today announced the resolution of three cases arising from an investigation of phony bids in on-line auctions. … In the first case, three individuals pleaded guilty to criminal charges… In two other cases, defendants entered into civil settlements with the Attorney General's office… Spitzer commended eBay for the valuable assistance it provided to his office…"

For the full text of Attorney General Spitzer's Press Release ("Shill Bidding" Exposed in Online Auctions"), please see: http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2004/nov/nov8a_04.html

Hope this clears up any argument. Any false elevation of the value of an auction -- by yourself or by a friend -- is viewed by eBay and law enforcement as shill bidding or fraud, depending on the application.

And for the record, I have NEVER shill bid one of my own auctions, and never will. If I want something specific for it, I will set a reserve price or a higher opening bid. A little research, too, will show what range your item is selling at on eBay before you put it up for sale.